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SSD write endurance - Page 3

post #21 of 64
Seems I do 32.5/gb a day, but something jumped my drive from 8TB to 11TB fairly quick recently.

I was concerned with wear when I bought my Intel X-25, that drive is about 3 years old in my wifes PC now and last I checked was still at 99% life left writing 12gb/day.
post #22 of 64
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Well, I went thru another 10 GB in writes overnight just having my PC idle, so I can assume it's going to use ~ 1 GB / hour (24 GB / day) just from background processes.

vmware-vmx has a constant stream of writes 24/7, and I run 2 of those.
post #23 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by demoship View Post

Well, I went thru another 10 GB in writes overnight just having my PC idle, so I can assume it's going to use ~ 1 GB / hour (24 GB / day) just from background processes.

vmware-vmx has a constant stream of writes 24/7, and I run 2 of those.

Somehow, I don't think that can be considered typical usage even for the majority of users in this forum... It's certainly not something I expect my mom or grandma will know how to do.

Power users are more likely to replace their drives more often. They're also likely to buy higher capacity SSD's in which case the 840 EVO 1TB can be expected to handle 1PB worth of writes compared to 384TB on the 840 PRO 128GB or 768TB on the 840 PRO 256GB.

I'm using a Samsung 840 500GB as a scratch drive for my DVD rips and other miscellaneous stuff. The SSD's currently at host write 1,435GB and wear leveling count 2 (likely going on 3) with 5,188 power-on hours or 216 days of nearly 24/7 operation (occasional reset for Windows updates, etc). Around 800GB of that was written in the past week. Let's round up that number to 1TB or 2 P/E cycles per week. Even at that rate, I'd still have over 9 years worth of P/E cycles left with that SSD. Realistically speaking, I'd probably be eager to replace it by year 3 or 4 when we have 2+TB SSD's for relatively cheap.
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post #24 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

Somehow, I don't think that can be considered typical usage even for the majority of users in this forum... It's certainly not something I expect my mom or grandma will know how to do.

Power users are more likely to replace their drives more often. They're also likely to buy higher capacity SSD's in which case the 840 EVO 1TB can be expected to handle 1PB worth of writes compared to 384TB on the 840 PRO 128GB or 768TB on the 840 PRO 256GB.

I'm using a Samsung 840 500GB as a scratch drive for my DVD rips and other miscellaneous stuff. The SSD's currently at host write 1,435GB and wear leveling count 2 (likely going on 3) with 5,188 power-on hours or 216 days of nearly 24/7 operation (occasional reset for Windows updates, etc). Around 800GB of that was written in the past week. Let's round up that number to 1TB or 2 P/E cycles per week. Even at that rate, I'd still have over 9 years worth of P/E cycles left with that SSD. Realistically speaking, I'd probably be eager to replace it by year 3 or 4 when we have 2+TB SSD's for relatively cheap.

Right, that's what I said about a lot of things, that I'll replace it in 3 or 4 years. When the time comes, I get lazy and don't want to put together a new build. Just like in 3 or 4 years, I'm not going to want to go through the hassle of changing boot drives unless I'm looking at a drive that's going to fail.

Amateur users can actually do worse though. They're more likely to use a page file which can cause tons of writes, or do things like hibernate their computer which is going to dump all the contents of RAM onto the hard drive, or have dumb settings like power save turning off hard drives after X minutes, which is horrible for platter disks, and could be bad for SSDs (I don't think there's an extensive amount of study into the effects of unnecessary power cycling on SSDs yet, but it's terrible for platter disks to stop them and spin them when you don't have to). Or they could have a program(s) that's generating a lot of writes (whether it's intentional, malfunctioning, or malicious program, it doesn't really matter) and be totally oblivious to that fact until their drive's bricked. With a platter drive, you can hear it if something is thrashing the drive, and your computer will take a massive performance hit. With a SSD you can be totally oblivious to this fact. You also have the occasional idiot who thinks unplugging their computer is a good way to turn it off, and doing that can brick a SSD, though that's a separate issue not having to do w/ write endurance.

That being said, I would say the average user who buys a SSD has higher disk usage patterns then people who buy platter disks. Ironically, the more read/writes you do, the bigger the (performance) benefit you get from having a SSD. If you have a usage pattern that would wear out a SSD in a year, chances are whatever you're doing would be intolerably slow on a platter disk, and would be well worth the few hundred $ to replace the disk.

And remember, if you have a 256 GB drive and write 256 GB of data on it, you're not using 1 P/E cycle, you're using more then 1 due to write amplification (typical articles use ~ 3X as the number). So 3000 P/E cycles means writing over the disk roughly 1000 times before you use up those cycles. 1000 P/E cycles is only 333 times.. which really isn't that much.
post #25 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by demoship View Post

Right, that's what I said about a lot of things, that I'll replace it in 3 or 4 years. When the time comes, I get lazy and don't want to put together a new build. Just like in 3 or 4 years, I'm not going to want to go through the hassle of changing boot drives unless I'm looking at a drive that's going to fail.

Given the only reason I haven't upgraded my desktop SSD's to 1TB is due to price, I doubt this is the case for me. Small builds or hot-swap drive bays and imaging software really help make drive replacement relatively hassle-free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demoship View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Amateur users can actually do worse though. They're more likely to use a page file which can cause tons of writes, or do things like hibernate their computer which is going to dump all the contents of RAM onto the hard drive, or have dumb settings like power save turning off hard drives after X minutes, which is horrible for platter disks, and could be bad for SSDs (I don't think there's an extensive amount of study into the effects of unnecessary power cycling on SSDs yet, but it's terrible for platter disks to stop them and spin them when you don't have to). Or they could have a program(s) that's generating a lot of writes (whether it's intentional, malfunctioning, or malicious program, it doesn't really matter) and be totally oblivious to that fact until their drive's bricked. With a platter drive, you can hear it if something is thrashing the drive, and your computer will take a massive performance hit. With a SSD you can be totally oblivious to this fact. You also have the occasional idiot who thinks unplugging their computer is a good way to turn it off, and doing that can brick a SSD, though that's a separate issue not having to do w/ write endurance.

That being said, I would say the average user who buys a SSD has higher disk usage patterns then people who buy platter disks. Ironically, the more read/writes you do, the bigger the (performance) benefit you get from having a SSD. If you have a usage pattern that would wear out a SSD in a year, chances are whatever you're doing would be intolerably slow on a platter disk, and would be well worth the few hundred $ to replace the disk.

And remember, if you have a 256 GB drive and write 256 GB of data on it, you're not using 1 P/E cycle, you're using more then 1 due to write amplification (typical articles use ~ 3X as the number). So 3000 P/E cycles means writing over the disk roughly 1000 times before you use up those cycles. 1000 P/E cycles is only 333 times.. which really isn't that much.

I've got pagefile and temp folders on my desktop SSD's and pagefile, hibernate and temp folders on my laptop SSD's. Each one of those is at 99-100% health. Heck, I've even got a Crucial m4 doing live TV buffer duties on the HTPC and after two years, it's still at 93%. Frankly, if you've got plenty of RAM, your OS will barely touch the pagefile for writes. Another thing, Windows (at least 7) has a built-in reporting mechanism for drive failures. I reckon the dropping drive health will trigger this and would serve as a better warning of impending drive failure to your average user than sounds of the HDD thrashing (which they may or may not notice depending on ambient noise and location of the PC).

While 3x is a commonly quoted number for write amplification, it really depends on the SSD controller and workload. With my usage (OS, web, etc), my Intel 330 drives have WA of less than 1x (thanks to compression and deduplication) while my Samsung 830 has a write amplification of ~1.5x. My scratch SSD's (Samsung 840) are at ~1x WA (primarily sequential data).

Mind you, the family desktop has an Intel X25-M G2 120GB as OS drive and after 3 years of 24/7 use, it only has 6TB of host writes and is still at 100% drive health.
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post #26 of 64
SSD's are a lot more durable than you're letting on. For example my current drive has 2.7 years of work time on it with 17 TB's of written data recorded and it's still in extremely great health.

post #27 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by XAslanX View Post

SSD's are a lot more durable than you're letting on. For example my current drive has 2.7 years of work time on it with 17 TB's of written data recorded and it's still in extremely great health.


That's a fairly high end drive (rated at 5000 P/E cycles, and with a very low write amplification). And probably cost you several dollars per GB when you bought it.

If that was a TLC drive with 1000 P/E cycles and 3X write amplification, you'd be looking at replacing it pretty soon.

There is value in not buying the cheapest product and getting a good one.
post #28 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by demoship View Post

That's a fairly high end drive (rated at 5000 P/E cycles, and with a very low write amplification). And probably cost you several dollars per GB when you bought it.

If that was a TLC drive with 1000 P/E cycles and 3X write amplification, you'd be looking at replacing it pretty soon.

There is value in not buying the cheapest product and getting a good one.

I paid $32 for the drive back in 2011 as the original owner sold it that cheap due to having 2 reallocated sectors. Since then it has only gone up to 4 sectors as that is how nand cells work.
post #29 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by XAslanX View Post

17 TB's of written data recorded and it's still in extremely great health.

17 TB isn't much.

SSD life span is perfectly acceptable for most general use tasks, but there are uses, some not all that uncommon, that will wear out an SSD faster than a mechanical drive.
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post #30 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by demoship View Post

That's a fairly high end drive (rated at 5000 P/E cycles, and with a very low write amplification). And probably cost you several dollars per GB when you bought it.

If that was a TLC drive with 1000 P/E cycles and 3X write amplification, you'd be looking at replacing it pretty soon.

There is value in not buying the cheapest product and getting a good one.

You keep quoting 3x write amplification but that's just a conservative estimate by most websites. I reckon real world write amplification is lower. Alas, I don't have write amplification numbers for my TLC SSD's (840 500GB and 840 EVO 1TB) since I haven't written enough data to them yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

17 TB isn't much.

SSD life span is perfectly acceptable for most general use tasks, but there are uses, some not all that uncommon, that will wear out an SSD faster than a mechanical drive.

I think the point he was making is he's a power user relatively speaking and he's only written 17TB to the drive in 2.7 years. For your average user, having only 128TB NAND writes on a 128GB just isn't a cause for concern. Besides, 128GB is fairly small and I doubt folks would be capturing raw video at bitrates of 1.5Gbps to a measly 128GB drive.

The thing is I doubt folks who tend to use their computers for 10 years or more (until the computer dies) are the type to write tons of stuff to their drives. The ones likely to do that are people familiar with technology and they're more likely to use high capacity HDD's or SSD's as well as replace hardware more often. Really, the only thing I'd do if I'm setting up a system with SSD for a non-techie is to overprovision the SSD.
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