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SSD write endurance - Page 5

post #41 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

Theoretically readable but I've yet to see an SSD fail gracefully based on JEDEC recommendations. That said, like you said, I haven't seen any NAND-related SSD failure before it reaches the P/E cycle specification either based on torture tests done by various websites. At the very least, we know a Samsung 840 EVO 120GB is good for 120TB NAND writes (assuming it doesn't experience controller failure or something) and that's more than what your average user will likely write in their computer's serviceable life.

Well, the NAND no longer being writable would be transparent to the end-user and system. The controller marks the cell as unwritable and works around it.

Yeah, most SSD failures are related to firmware issues... most often related to abrupt power loss. I have seen a few fried SSDs as well.
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post #42 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by demoship View Post

Wear range delta isn't leveling count. It's the delta between the most worn block and least worn block (hence the delta). It's basically an indication of how well the wear leveling is working.

I'm not sure what lifetime writes represents. Now that you mention it, I think I read it wrong. I was reading that as if the first 3 digits were GB (I was off by 3 zeros, lol)

According to Samsung, (B1) or attribute ID #177 is the Wear Leveling Count and (F1) or ID #241 is the Total LBAs Written.

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/about/whitepaper07.html
Quote:
ID # 177 Wear Leveling Count
This attribute represents the number of media program and erase operations (the number of times a block has been erased). This value is directly related to the lifetime of the SSD. The raw value of this attribute shows the total count of P/E Cycles.

ID # 241 Total LBAs Written
Represents the total size of all LBAs (Logical Block Address) required for all of the write requests sent to the SSD from the OS. To calculate the total size (in Bytes), multiply the raw value of this attribute by 512B. Alternatively, users may simply consult the Total Bytes Written indicator in Magician 4.0.

I'd be more inclined to believe Samsung over HD Tune. I highly suggest you install CrystalDiskInfo or Samsung Magician to look at your 840 PRO's S.M.A.R.T. values.
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post #43 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Well, the NAND no longer being writable would be transparent to the end-user and system. The controller marks the cell as unwritable and works around it.

Yeah, most SSD failures are related to firmware issues... most often related to abrupt power loss. I have seen a few fried SSDs as well.

There's a lot of coverage about this subject, where after a power outage a SSD 'disappears' from the system, has severe data corruption, or outright bricks. Another reason I chose a 840 pro over the evo.

Also, it's one thing for someone to buy a $300 bargain brand PC and plug it straight into the wall, but it's amazing how many people spend thousands of dollars on a PC build and don't have some kind of UPS protection on their PC. IMO that's downright stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

According to Samsung, (B1) or attribute ID #177 is the Wear Leveling Count and (F1) or ID #241 is the Total LBAs Written.

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/about/whitepaper07.html
I'd be more inclined to believe Samsung over HD Tune. I highly suggest you install CrystalDiskInfo or Samsung Magician to look at your 840 PRO's S.M.A.R.T. values.

Hmm, I guess you're right, since the IDs do match up and the names are populated by the application, not the firmware obviously.

In that case, I'm wrong about a few things.

My disk usage from idling my PC is about 12 GB / day in LBA bytes, not 24 GB, and WA is lower then I thought originally.
Edited by demoship - 4/8/14 at 4:31pm
post #44 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by demoship View Post

My disk usage from idling my PC is about 12 GB / day in LBA bytes, not 24 GB, and WA is lower then I thought originally.

That's if those numbers are even correct to begin with. My Samsung 840 shows a negative number for F1 in HD Tune and whatever back calculation I've tried doesn't jive with the values CrystalDiskInfo or Samsung Magician are giving me. Again, I suggest trying different software to check SMART values.
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post #45 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

That's if those numbers are even correct to begin with. My Samsung 840 shows a negative number for F1 in HD Tune and whatever back calculation I've tried doesn't jive with the values CrystalDiskInfo or Samsung Magician are giving me. Again, I suggest trying different software to check SMART values.

The numbers are correct.

They're an exact match with what samsung's program give.

No idea why yours is off in HD Tune. All HD Tune is doing is pulling the SMART values and displaying them.
post #46 of 64
Note for power loss worriers, Crucial M500/M550 have power loss capacitors like enterprise drives (ie remain powered long enough to shut down).
This is not an exciting feature.
post #47 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brasslad View Post

Note for power loss worriers, Crucial M500/M550 have power loss capacitors like enterprise drives (ie remain powered long enough to shut down).
This is not an exciting feature.

There's still a lot of drives that have zero power loss protection, used by users who have zero power loss protection for their PC.
post #48 of 64
There's a reason why I won't use any of my other SSD's, despite them all being top tier, as my main drive instead of my Samsung 830 256GB. It hasbbeen in use about a year, WA of 1.08x (I average 171/256GB free, but it has been filled multiple times), and I have seen the firsthand rresults of the torture tests in which the 830's simply refuse to pass away until they have seen all the lesser drives, which is everything they were up against, not only perish, but the 830 goes on to last anywhere from 3 to 22 times longer than others!
I have always hated OCZ, and now that they're nothing more than a bit of passing flatulence in the wind, you will see that the quality of drives has increased EVEN THOUGH the type of NAND used has become less durable.
Plextor M5P-Xtreme
Crucial M4
Intel SDC3700 and now the 730
Crucial M500
Samsung 840 PRO and EVO
and so on...

Oh, I almost forgot SanDisk.

My viewpoint is that it pays to be an intelligent consumer. Consequently, I ignore trash from Corsair and the like, drives that are assembled from a fustercluck of random parts, exactly 0 percent if which are made by the companysell ing the drive.
Instead, I go for companies that are bottom to top, start to finish, 100 percent responsible for the desig, eengineering, production and manufacturing, and assembly of the product they tout. Samsung, to the best of my knowledge, now stands alone in that regard. However, the companies mentioned above all go way beyond what the majority do, and are actually responsible for what goes on to the consumer, and they KNOW and ACKNOWLEDGE that.



My X79 rig, actually as of a little bit ago, now has 7 SSD's, along with almost twice as many platter drives (SAS9376-8iCCv PCIe3.0/SAS12Gbs RAID Controller with NAND flash backup, 4GB DDR3 cache, and an expander... It is for a work in progress media center slash server, but I refused to let it be all lonely in its box).
I have been using a 30GB partition located at the absolute outside edge of a drive for Page File and TEMP/TMP files, since the other 500+ gigs sits as nothingmmore thana rrepository of program installers (ie it's never accessed unless I am specifically accessing it), and HDTune PRO is telling me that my super short stroked partition is Max 179.8MB/s, Avg 178.9MB/s, Min 178.2MB/s, and with an access time of 3.02ms.
I have never felt so much as a hiccup from having it setup as such.


On another note, keep in mind that SSD's may have enticing looking big sequential transfer numbers, but it's the random I/O where they actually have a perceivable advantage, orders of magnitude so.
Frankly, if you are using SSD('s) for recording game play or storing movies/shows, you would be FAR better off with one or more of the blazing fast, huge capacity modern spinny drives.

The usage patterns I have read in this thread, I would never recommend uusing SSD's for them unless you simply like to spend money.

SEQUENTIAL access is where platter drives EXCEL, in fact I have $187 worth of HDD 's in a RAID10 array streaming a full days worth of audio production work over to one of my backup servers via 10Gbit ethernet (and the backup server arrays are all at least 8-drive arrays, andno parity arrays; 875-1225MB/s writes). My $187 4x1TB WD10EZEX array is transferring...
- 192.3GB uncompressed 32bit/384khz live audio
- 114.8GB uncompressed edited 32bit/384khz live audio
Oh, and
- 207.7GB of media (59 1080p 7.1ch films, and a few hundred tv show episodes)

Transferring at... A steady 782.8MB/sec.


If you are not putting media on your SSD to work on that media, but simply using it as storage, then you have paid a lot of money and are subjecting yourself to a lot of unnecessary worry, because a good hard drive would be vastly cheaper and perform justas wwell.

The same goes for recording yourself playing games. It is a massively sequential operation, and 2x $49.95 gets you eeverything you need for a 2TB RAID0 array that will R/W at around 400MB/sec, instead of a mere 120GB of storage that you are worried about the limited write life of. I assume you have a good backup regimen in place (redundancy at the local level, daily backups to a separate machine (server/NAS/ext HDD) that is not on the same power circuit and is either unplugged from absolutely everything at all times except when actively transferring data (ext HDD) or is on a high quality Ups... And 1x weekly or monthly at the latest, all data is backed up to an offsite source that cannot be destroyed by whatever kills the computer, my personal choice being external HDD's in a safety deposit box, which rotate so one is always here for critical daily backups)... Three is one, so get it done! wink.gif


My rambling does have a point, somewhere, and I believeit is this...
Hard ddrives may be old hat, but the best way to do something is by utilizing the strengths of X to offset the weaknesses of Y, and vice versa. As cool as SSD's are, they simply don't beat hard drives for every task. Develop a solid storage subsystem plan, I highly recommend parallelism in every possible way, and before long you won't even have to think about it, but you will know that you are not only getting the maximum amount of performance from the components you paid for, you are also leveraging their strengths to minimize their weaknesses, resulting in the confusing "holy grail" of storage: capacity, reliability and redundancy, and performance all at once (confusing because it's quite easy to "reach").
   
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post #49 of 64
What is the problem? 5 years is a typical hard drive lifetime.
If you want more, buy a 3000 PE cycle. SSD. Currently, it is looking like mine will last 15 years. That will outlive me.
post #50 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by demoship View Post

There's still a lot of drives that have zero power loss protection, used by users who have zero power loss protection for their PC.
We very well know what component is responsible for power-loss protection in PC system,its UPS ,so people please get one before ,your expensive GPU or WC or 32GB of memory or second GPU or 6TB drive or on and on..
Its really not SSDs manufacturers problem ,because every one of them have their series of SSD with power-loss protection ,so if you want one of them you need to pay like everything else in this beautiful world.
Edited by Unit Igor - 4/9/14 at 11:25pm
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