Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD - General › How about this build or should I go with intel build?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

How about this build or should I go with intel build? - Page 15

post #141 of 216
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

CPU performance in gaming is about achieving or exceeding a threshold. Once you're over the threshold the bottleneck shifts to the GPU and CPU performance causes no more scaling. This is the IDEAL place to be with the CPU as it means you're getting every last drop out of the GPU, which in a gaming rig, is often more expensive than the CPU. In an ideal world, you'd have enough CPU power to plant the bottleneck firmly on the GPU in every game. In the real world, planting the bottleneck firmly on the GPU is something that occurs in MANY games, but not ALL games.

Having some "wasted" CPU in game engines that are less demanding on the CPU is fine. Not having enough CPU in games that are strung by CPU performance badly is often NOT considered to be "fine."

A haswell core has about 30% more execution resources than an Ivy core. The potential gains from hyper-threading are greater in the haswell architecture than in Ivy architecture because of this. In most workloads, we don't see 30% performance scaling from ivy to haswell but in *some* we do (workloads that heavily leaning towards one type of execution resource, like all integer or all vector instructions see the greatest improvements). In truly CPU bound workloads performance scaling is typically 10-15%. Very few games plant the bottleneck on the CPU continuously, so we don't "see" 10-15% improvements from Ivy to Haswell on paper FPS "averages," but that improvement can and does show up in minimum-FPS scenarios that are CPU bound.


alright ... I'm quoting your comment because I want to be sure about terms and statements I think that I understood ..


so ..

1. you mentioned the threshold for the CPU performance for exceeding and achieving levels, and I understood in electronics that threshold is the edge voltage that the device start to work actively.

Another possibility that I understood your point of view of threshold is the level around the stock speed of the CPU which drive the GPU in high performance, because the CPU runs under its stock speed which not drive the GPU from the threshold level. And, when you start the game or the powerful application, the CPU directly runs above the stock speed to the turbo speed, which runs the GPU in very high performance. To a point where the CPU bottleneck the GPU or the opposite, and this point occurs after the stock speed of the CPU ... I hope I understood you good thumb.gif


2. I think you mean by scaling, is the process of drawing the pixels on the monitor, so Haswell is more efficient than Ivy for improved architecture.

Also you mean by integer is the number or character carried by an instruction, and vector is the dimensions and data of shapes and picture.
post #142 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post

There is virtually no difference in modern day gaming for single GPU systems at high or Ultra graphic settings.All the talk of bottlenecking and such is vastly overhyped,mainly focused on low resolution benchmarks. Basically there are a few unoptimized games that do show a difference(like Skyrim,SCII).The situation will do nothing but improve with API's like Mantle and DX12. So once again another potential AMD customer is beguiled into spending more money for a few FPS in a couple games.Meanwhile,OP could have went with a build like the following,which features a R9 280X 3GB,250GB OS SSD. In everyday use this system will be faster.
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Redwoodz/saved/4oPU

A very good point.
Gaming benchmarks at 1024 x 768 lost their relevance back in '06. Many users would be better off buying a cheaper cpu and spend the money saved on the GPU , better ram and an SSD,depending on what they do with their rig.
Ryzen Shine!
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1800X @ 4125mhz 1.432 Volts MSI X370 Titanium   Fury  G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 850 pro Hp 1260 I liquid unobtanium Koolance 480mm radiator, 39... Win 7 HP/Winspy 10 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
24" hp @ 1900x1200 Logitech G19 PC power and cooling 910 watt silencer Thermaltake P5 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech MX 518 fUnc industries 
  hide details  
Reply
Ryzen Shine!
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1800X @ 4125mhz 1.432 Volts MSI X370 Titanium   Fury  G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 850 pro Hp 1260 I liquid unobtanium Koolance 480mm radiator, 39... Win 7 HP/Winspy 10 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
24" hp @ 1900x1200 Logitech G19 PC power and cooling 910 watt silencer Thermaltake P5 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech MX 518 fUnc industries 
  hide details  
Reply
post #143 of 216
1500 dollar computer and it has a fx 6300. /facepalm
Beast
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4790k/5.0Ghz/1.37vBios Gigabyte z97x gaming 5 EVGA 1080 FTW HYBRID(2164core-12,012mem) Mushkin 8x2 16gb 2133mhzOC 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
840 evo 250g and 1tb None Cpu:H100i--Gpu:Hybrid Windows 10 Pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer Predator x34 Logitech wirless Dell 875.  On a table 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Razor Naga Chroma Powercolor Full table pad Onboard Liquid PRO 
  hide details  
Reply
Beast
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4790k/5.0Ghz/1.37vBios Gigabyte z97x gaming 5 EVGA 1080 FTW HYBRID(2164core-12,012mem) Mushkin 8x2 16gb 2133mhzOC 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
840 evo 250g and 1tb None Cpu:H100i--Gpu:Hybrid Windows 10 Pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer Predator x34 Logitech wirless Dell 875.  On a table 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Razor Naga Chroma Powercolor Full table pad Onboard Liquid PRO 
  hide details  
Reply
post #144 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonsyph View Post

1500 dollar computer and it has a fx 6300. /facepalm
What? What are you talking about?


Also OP please dont quadruple post ever again. There is a little pencil in the bottom left corner of your post.
Black Jarvis V1.9
(21 items)
 
Mazdaspeed6
(18 items)
 
 
  hide details  
Reply
Black Jarvis V1.9
(21 items)
 
Mazdaspeed6
(18 items)
 
 
  hide details  
Reply
post #145 of 216
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonsyph View Post

1500 dollar computer and it has a fx 6300. /facepalm

$1500 .. yea .. i actually changed my direction to 4670k, and surprisingly !! the thread is still active biggrin.gif


with this money, even if you chose 4770k the difference is $220 max over $1500, so the total rise to $1720 .. you already paying over $1500 wink.gif


also the FX-6300 is a very good CPU i saw videos on youtube playing BF4 on ultra settings, and i know the ultra texture and quality mostly depends in GPU power and performance ..


anyway .. i changed my interest to intel ..
post #146 of 216
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post


One of the things that does differentiate a "gaming" board in some cases, is a nicer onboard audio controller. It won't make any useful difference on the cheap 5.1 system,

why?

is there better system than this one, because i want the 5.1 experience

and i observed a test on youtube, and it seems have nice bass sound

Quote:
but if you have a nice set of cans the nicer onboard audio might be noticeable to some discerning ears.

what you mean by cans?
Edited by itcharzherp - 4/18/14 at 2:36pm
post #147 of 216
Plese dont post more then one time if you post too many times the mods might removed some of them or give you a warning

Please use the edit function if you got anything else you like to add
Seravee
(27 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core I7 6850K Gigabyte X99 Ultra Gaming EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2 Kingston HyperX DDR4 Savage 3000 MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 840 Evo WD Green WD60EZRX  WD Red WD80EFZX 8TB  Seagate Ironwolf Pro 10 TB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingOS
LG CH12NS30 x5 Noctua NF-A14 FLX Noctua NH-D15S Windows 7 64 Bit 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Asus PG279Q LG 49UH750V 4K LED TV Corsair Gaming Strafe RGB EVGA SuperNova G2 750 watt 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks Enthoo Luxe Roccat Kone EMP Roccat Sense Metor Sennheiser HD 598 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Onkyo TX NR646  Harman Kardon HKTS 60 Dali Opticon Vokal x2 Dali Opticon 2 
AudioOtherOther
x2 Dali Opticon 1 CableMod E series PSU cable set CableMod LED Strips 
  hide details  
Reply
Seravee
(27 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core I7 6850K Gigabyte X99 Ultra Gaming EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2 Kingston HyperX DDR4 Savage 3000 MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 840 Evo WD Green WD60EZRX  WD Red WD80EFZX 8TB  Seagate Ironwolf Pro 10 TB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingOS
LG CH12NS30 x5 Noctua NF-A14 FLX Noctua NH-D15S Windows 7 64 Bit 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Asus PG279Q LG 49UH750V 4K LED TV Corsair Gaming Strafe RGB EVGA SuperNova G2 750 watt 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks Enthoo Luxe Roccat Kone EMP Roccat Sense Metor Sennheiser HD 598 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Onkyo TX NR646  Harman Kardon HKTS 60 Dali Opticon Vokal x2 Dali Opticon 2 
AudioOtherOther
x2 Dali Opticon 1 CableMod E series PSU cable set CableMod LED Strips 
  hide details  
Reply
post #148 of 216
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shilka View Post

Plese dont post more then one time if you post too many times the mods might removed some of them or give you a warning

Please use the edit function if you got anything else you like to add


biggrin.gif


I almost hit the warning button in this thread ..

and thanks for the advice ..


how to delete the second post?
Edited by itcharzherp - 4/18/14 at 2:49pm
post #149 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by itcharzherp View Post

why?

is there better system than this one, because i want the 5.1 experience

and i observed a test on youtube, and it seems have nice bass sound
what you mean by cans?

Ya, gotta love DTS 5.1. Allot of the new surround sound systems have built in converters for 2-channel to 5.1. And it works pretty well.
Also most graphics cards have 7.1 through hdmi.
Beast
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4790k/5.0Ghz/1.37vBios Gigabyte z97x gaming 5 EVGA 1080 FTW HYBRID(2164core-12,012mem) Mushkin 8x2 16gb 2133mhzOC 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
840 evo 250g and 1tb None Cpu:H100i--Gpu:Hybrid Windows 10 Pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer Predator x34 Logitech wirless Dell 875.  On a table 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Razor Naga Chroma Powercolor Full table pad Onboard Liquid PRO 
  hide details  
Reply
Beast
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4790k/5.0Ghz/1.37vBios Gigabyte z97x gaming 5 EVGA 1080 FTW HYBRID(2164core-12,012mem) Mushkin 8x2 16gb 2133mhzOC 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
840 evo 250g and 1tb None Cpu:H100i--Gpu:Hybrid Windows 10 Pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer Predator x34 Logitech wirless Dell 875.  On a table 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Razor Naga Chroma Powercolor Full table pad Onboard Liquid PRO 
  hide details  
Reply
post #150 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by itcharzherp View Post

alright ... I'm quoting your comment because I want to be sure about terms and statements I think that I understood ..
so ..

1. you mentioned the threshold for the CPU performance for exceeding and achieving levels, and I understood in electronics that threshold is the edge voltage that the device start to work actively.

The performance threshold I'm talking about has absolutely nothing to do with voltage. It has to do with instruction execution rate.

When playing a game, the computer is effectively running a real-time interactive simulation. That simulation involves lots of instructions that must be handled by the CPU, and lots of instructions that must be handled by the GPU. Without an FPS limit in place, each will work at the fastest rate of execution that it can as long as the other is keeping up. One or the other will always achieve instruction-throughput saturation on some part of it's core configuration, which determines the resulting performance (measured as FPS). Whichever component is hitting instruction-throughput saturation is the bottleneck in the whole working system. In most games, it is preferable to have that bottleneck be on the GPU rather than on the CPU as often as possible for numerous reasons.
Quote:
Another possibility that I understood your point of view of threshold is the level around the stock speed of the CPU which drive the GPU in high performance, because the CPU runs under its stock speed which not drive the GPU from the threshold level. And, when you start the game or the powerful application, the CPU directly runs above the stock speed to the turbo speed, which runs the GPU in very high performance. To a point where the CPU bottleneck the GPU or the opposite, and this point occurs after the stock speed of the CPU ... I hope I understood you good thumb.gif

Whether or not the bottleneck occurs at the CPU or the GPU depends on the game engine, the conditions in the game, the resolution, the settings, which CPU and which GPU are involved.

There are people in this thread trying to imply that MORE RESOLUTION results in better CPU performance. It DOES NOT. DO NOT listen to these sudo-geeks-on-training-wheels. If the FPS is bad at a low resolution due to a poor performing CPU, it will only get worse at a higher resolution. Under no conditions can a CPU bottleneck that has been hidden under a GPU bottleneck that is even worse cause higher FPS.

Quote:
2. I think you mean by scaling, is the process of drawing the pixels on the monitor, so Haswell is more efficient than Ivy for improved architecture.

No, performance scaling, is the observation of a performance DIFFERENCE when something about the hardware has been changed. If we overclock the CPU from 3.5ghz to 4.5ghz, and observe a 25% increase in minimum FPS, then we know that the workload is primarily CPU bound and responds to CPU performance improvements, this is known as performance scaling.

The biggest difference between IvyBridge, and Haswell, is the increase in instruction execution resources in Haswell. We observe the largest difference in performance between Ivy and Haswell when the workload was bottle-necking on Ivy's execution resources, which was most likely to happen when the workload was not very diverse. When a workload has a diverse mix of instructions (vector/float/integer) they can be spread out across many execution ports, when all of the instructions are the same type, they bottleneck on only a few available instruction ports that can handle those specific instructions. Haswell's increased execution resources means better compute performance in workloads that are less diverse. (This is why a haswell core can be faster than a PileDriver module, even in integer heavy workloads, where PD used to be "king.")
Quote:
Also you mean by integer is the number or character carried by an instruction, and vector is the dimensions and data of shapes and picture.

A CPU is a very sophisticated calculator that contains pipelines for executing many different types of instructions. Some of those instructions work on whole numbers, others work on floating point numbers, often, the floating point work is vectorized (large data sets)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_processor

Quote:
Originally Posted by itcharzherp View Post

why?

is there better system than this one, because i want the 5.1 experience

and i observed a test on youtube, and it seems have nice bass sound

The typical average on-board sound found on a motherboard is cleaner (lower distortion, lower noise floor, etc) than the sound quality you will get from a cheap 5.1 computer speaker system. So there is no "point" in going out of your way to improve on the quality of the source (the sound card) unless you have some other device that would make the difference in signal quality more apparent. (a nice set of headphones, is an example, as they place greater load on the sound card and will reveal its deficiencies more readily).
Quote:
what you mean by cans?

     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
  hide details  
Reply
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: AMD - General
Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD - General › How about this build or should I go with intel build?