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[IGN] Netflix Begins 4K Streaming - Page 3

post #21 of 63
A lot of people here are comparing the 15Mbps recommended bandwidth to typical H.264 encoded streams. Netflix is not using H.264 for 4K content, they are using the newer codec H.265 which offers 50% reduction in file size and 25-35% lower bitrate while retaining the same quality as H.264. TL;DR less bandwidth required. thumb.gif
post #22 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

doesnt it seem a bit counter intuitive to offer 4k,8k,16k,32k.. 1 million K etc.. and then have youtube levels of compression applied? Blueray @ 1080p is usually around 25 - 30mbps for just the video stream. The audio codecs is about 5mpbs - 7mbps so the typical net result for a blueray @ 1080p = 35MBPS

So, 4K is 4 x 1080p but here we have only 50% video bandwidth of 1080p blueray. Even if the new codec is 50% better that is still a lot less bandwidth and just more lost pixels, banding and blocking.

Just as has been discussed (as per the Vsauce episode on resolution) Distance and Lighting play a huge role in perceived resolution for the human eye, 1080p may not be perfect but pushing a 4k Ultra-HD standard through a small bandwidth pipe vs less compressed 1080p at typical viewing distances where by its already hard to tell the difference between 1080p and 4k on anything less than a 60" screen is just marketing hype.

The marketing buffs answer is to sit closer to the TV with 4K rolleyes.gif


The answer is 4K is best used for computer Monitors so the eye can perceive the details and you are already sat closer. 4K makes more sense in the world of computers.


At least Id prefer it if they offered a proper 40- 50mbps stream with HD audio and said here you go, if you have the connection enjoy the best...

Unfortunately this is the reality of things. We saw the same thing happen with music and mp3s, even though we were capable of lossless digital formats not long after mp3 was all the rage, mp3 and other lossy formats continued on. Heck, we were even in a position to where we could have improved upon the CD standard quality and yet we still regressed for the most part. People will give up quality for convenience, and ignorance will keep them from knowing any better and they'll be content because, for the most part, the compromise isn't so bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftstealth View Post

I'm sure you could still point out the 4k tv if it is next to a 1080p tv
assuming you have 20/20 vision, you'll only notice if you're sitting closer than ~6 feet to a screen less than ~90" in size. To truly enjoy 4K resolution while sitting at the average 10' viewing distance, you need a screen over 150"...
Quote:
and if they are the same price why not go for the 4k.
because they're not the same price? and resolution is really not that important in producing a quality picture (contrast ratio, black/white levels, color accuracy, compression...these can easily be far more important than how many pixels you have), so a higher end 1080p model (assuming similar price range) is easily a better choice
Quote:
Its all about consumerism. They will sell which is why they are providing them.
consumers can be extremely ignorant, 4K is little different from the ridiculous Hz marketing of a few years ago when TVs started to go to and beyond the 120Hz mark, its just so much easier to market a higher resolution because consumers can see a finite number that can't really be fudged (like contrast ratio can be and has been) and so it makes it easier to convince themselves in purchasing what they perceive to be the higher spec model
Quote:
You can still see a difference. It might be minuscule but its still a difference that people are willing to pay for and have the money to pay for.
again, you can only see it if you're sitting too close for any realistic TV setup (using it for a monitor is another story) or you have bird of prey vision. And of course people are willing to pay for it, because the marketing is doing a good job of selling something people don't need. By now, the 1080p market is pretty saturated, so its only natural that we start to see a push by the manufacturers to put out something that causes people to continue to spend their money (which is a good thing, its just unfortunate its 4K LCD that's doing that, and not something like OLED or plasma with superior contrast ratio, black levels, colors, motion clarity, etc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by t00sl0w View Post

15mbps puts it around a 1080p bluray compressed with DTS-MA audio.
assuming your file is around 10gb or so at 1.5-2hrs.
video and audio track only.
the 15mbps requirement probably allows for plenty of overhead (they say they require a 15mbps connection, not 15mbps bit rate), so the actual video bitrate is likely far less than that; I'd guess 8-10mbps. However its also using H.265 which promises much improved efficiency, albeit not nearly enough to match the equalized bitrate quality BluRay provides for merely 1080p.
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post #23 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by .:hybrid:. View Post

I always just mentally down convert. If I'm watching 1080p online, its like 720. So 4k means we will finally have decent 1080 biggrin.gif

lol same biggrin.gif
post #24 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by cipp View Post

A lot of people here are comparing the 15Mbps recommended bandwidth to typical H.264 encoded streams. Netflix is not using H.264 for 4K content, they are using the newer codec H.265 which offers 50% reduction in file size and 25-35% lower bitrate while retaining the same quality as H.264. TL;DR less bandwidth required. thumb.gif

That's awesome! Youtube needs to do this imo if it's true.
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post #25 of 63
Yay! Now I can hit my bandwidth cap in less than a day!

4k streaming isn't useful until US ISP's get drastically improved, net neutrality, and properly regulated.
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post #26 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by orlfman View Post

Yay! Now I can hit my bandwidth cap in less than a day!

4k streaming isn't useful until US ISP's get drastically improved, net neutrality, and properly regulated.

Excuse me but try coming to Australia.
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post #27 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post

Meanwhile Comcast says i can't go over 300GB in a month.

I would also like to take this time to congratulate Comcast on winning the Worst Company in America award for the second time.

That can't be right. EA's been the defending champion until this year. tongue.gif
     
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post #28 of 63
Netfix quality is spectacular. 1080p looks better then 1080p rips which are 13-15GB.
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post #29 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

Just as has been discussed (as per the Vsauce episode on resolution)...


Ugh, he brought up some interesting information, but still missed the boat.

It seems like there's a segment of the population that views it as a tragedy that they can't distinguish between individual pixels on their TV, as though they think that being able to see each one individually is what they paid for, when really sitting "too far away" is necessary to ensure that the information collecting ability of your eye, the most important thing in this whole situation, is actually saturated.
You want to sit "too far" away for the most realistic image.
Next is the bogus numbers that people throw around for that limit. I've done my own tests with my own eyes and 100DPI at 9 feet doesn't sound unreasonable (I'm somewhere between 20-20 and 20-15, just above average, and that was confirmed with a driver's exam a few weeks ago). My test was for the highest contrast situation I could come up with, which at first may sound biased, but do you actually want a screen that you know is not good enough under ideal conditions? Not to mention that's just where pixels start to blur together, with the maximum possible usable distance going out to 18 feet.
In other words, people should just use their TV like normal, the main reason people like having a bigger TV is the extra immersion from taking up a larger FOV, which would be no more useful now than it was before.
Thankfully we're actually getting demo units set up for people to look at and decide for themselves rather than using a bunch of useless figures from people trying to push an (anti-4K) agenda.

I can definitely agree that bandwidth is an issue, but you have to start somewhere, and hopefully the Blu-ray consortium gets their 4K spec disks out soon.

Next we need Hollywood to actually care, which may end up being the longest lasting problem.

I'm not a film industry expert, but most movie theaters are 4k, right? Which means some movies are already edited/distributed in a 4k format.

I think Hollywood would be happy to charge extra for 4k content right now, but the distribution platform/standards just aren't ready yet.

Even if all the projectors in the world are 4K or better, content is still commonly produced at 2K or worse. One comment I read recently was that producers like 4K recording just so they can use loose framing and crop it later.
The general impression seems to be there's a lot of people stuck in their ways over there.
post #30 of 63
cool beans but half the world dont have the connection or data caps for this to happen
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