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Hypothetical Question - FX-4300 vs. Phenom II X4 Clock for Clock - Page 9

post #81 of 131
people like to claim the FX overclocks more than the Phenom II.....but actually, the percentages of overclock are about exactly the same.

let's say 3.5Ghz overclocked to 4.7Ghz

now let's say 2.8Ghz overclocked to 3.6Ghz.


BOTH are around a 25% overclock. let's keep in mind 1Ghz Phenom II clock is not equal to 1Ghz FX clock.

The Phenom II 1090t @3.2Ghz beats the FX 6300 at 3.5Ghz in many tests by a considerable margin.

I wouldn't even bother with an FX 6 core, not with 1090t's selling for $75 or less. But I'd definitely get an 8 core over a 6 core for longevity.

Personally, I'm skipping the whole FX series. I keep machines for about 3-5 years. I'm not going to run a 200 watt processor for that amount of time, especially since we'll be seeing even faster sub 80w cpu's in the next few years.
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post #82 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

Not true. We know it's not true. The FM1-based Athlons were Stars cores on a 32nm process, and didn't even have the L3 cache as a possible impediment to overclocking. They don't overclock any better than 45nm Phenom II's did at the end of their production run.

If what you were claiming was true, then AMD would have simply continued to produce Phenom II chips at higher clock rates.
You're contradicting yourself here. If they were only interested in cutting costs and a die-shrink of the Stars core could have continued to scale upwards in clock speed, then why would AMD have invested any R&D funding into developing and improving the Bulldozer core design? You do know that BD had been in development for several years before it saw the light of day, don't you? There would have been no point in that if they could have made Phenom II's on 32nm that could clock higher and overclock well.
You're right. AMD's engineers did all of the work that went into developing Bulldozer, Piledriver, Steamroller, Jaguar and now Kabini and didn't make the company pay a dime for all of their hard work. AMD's not spent anything on R&D since they released Phenom II. They're developing Excavator for free, too.
How much has the performance of Intel processors increased in the last five years? Not much more than AMD's. There are tons of people on this very site still using Nehalem-based Intel chips from 2008-09 and doing very CPU-intensive tasks on them. Moore's Law was bogus from the very beginning and is totally deprecated now.
AMD doesn't have access to the best fabs in the world. They belong to Intel. If AMD had access to 22nm fabs, they'd make their desktop CPU's on that process, and they'd have much lower power consumption. But they don't. They have shown, however, that they can make an efficient APU, even with having to use inferior production facilities. We've seen that with Jaguar and Kabini.


You will never get a rebuttal to this post. When faced with facts the poster will just ignore you.
post #83 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post

people like to claim the FX overclocks more than the Phenom II.....but actually, the percentages of overclock are about exactly the same.

let's say 3.5Ghz overclocked to 4.7Ghz

now let's say 2.8Ghz overclocked to 3.6Ghz.


BOTH are around a 25% overclock. let's keep in mind 1Ghz Phenom II clock is not equal to 1Ghz FX clock.

The Phenom II 1090t @3.2Ghz beats the FX 6300 at 3.5Ghz in many tests by a considerable margin.

I wouldn't even bother with an FX 6 core, not with 1090t's selling for $75 or less. But I'd definitely get an 8 core over a 6 core for longevity.

Personally, I'm skipping the whole FX series. I keep machines for about 3-5 years. I'm not going to run a 200 watt processor for that amount of time, especially since we'll be seeing even faster sub 80w cpu's in the next few years.

The Phenom II x6 may beat the FX 6300 in terms of true raw performance but it lacks newer sets of instructions which has become inportant for games and trails behind in many in games. For me games matter.
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post #84 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post


I wouldn't even bother with an FX 6 core, not with 1090t's selling for $75 or less. But I'd definitely get an 8 core over a 6 core for longevity.

$75? Really? I see Phenom II x4 965 BE chips for that price. The cheapest 1090T I see out there right now is ~$190.
post #85 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrlordx View Post

$75? Really? I see Phenom II x4 965 BE chips for that price. The cheapest 1090T I see out there right now is ~$190.
True you will never get a Phenom II x6 for less than 150$ if you're lucky.
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post #86 of 131
I don't know. I too am skipping the entire FX series. Not because I think their stinkers of a chip, but because my Phenom II X4 still delivers the amount of performance I expected of it when I bought it. None of my games that I play are bottle-necked. And if they are, I damn sure can't tell.

The thing is, if your a Phenom owner, there isn't much point in upgrading to the FX chips. I want a HUGE improvement in performance if I upgrade. Not a mediocre one. And that leaves me with the wallet murdering Intel platform. Yeah, no. I'll wait for the next lineup of CPUs from AMD. Something that will at least make it feel like an upgrade, not a side-grade.

[Insert obligatory comment from others telling me to "upgrade" to FX 8350 here]

Answer is and will remain: NO THANK YOU wink.gif
 
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post #87 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrlordx View Post

$75? Really? I see Phenom II x4 965 BE chips for that price. The cheapest 1090T I see out there right now is ~$190.

Actually I saw a 1090t on ebay for $75, and that was the buy it now price, no bids. Most people are greedy though and try to milk the full cost of the new processor they intend to replace it with. My guess is that person was trying to cover the cost of an 8350 upgrade. But most of those aren't selling either.

As always, the typical asking price is not the same as the paying price. That is to say, people can ask whatever they want.....but it doesn't mean that's what people are paying.

I once saw a woman on craigslist selling an old LCD for more than the retail price of today, which was about half of what she was asking. bottom line....people tend to be greedy.
Edited by AMDATI - 4/22/14 at 8:56pm
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post #88 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason387 View Post

The Phenom II x6 may beat the FX 6300 in terms of true raw performance but it lacks newer sets of instructions which has become inportant for games and trails behind in many in games. For me games matter.

In many cases those instruction sets don't come into play at all......for example AVX helps speed video transcoding.....but guess what, virtually any GPU can transcode faster than the fastest CPU.

AVX actually matters less to the home user, and more to the business sector such as with computers running certain medical software.

In fact, there's already been discussions and tests showing no difference in gaming with AVX vs SSE4.....even with say, a console emulator.

reminds me of the people who somehow think that driver updates will increase their Kaveri performance by 100%, like somehow their PC is going to go from 4Ghz to 8Ghz in performance with software.
Edited by AMDATI - 4/22/14 at 9:12pm
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post #89 of 131
This is why I've got back to Phenom smile.gif if you are going to go to the FX series the only thing I'd consider is the FX-8320.

FX-6300 and you may as well get a Phenom II X4 or even an Athlon X4 (Richland).

FX-8350 and above, and well, there are better CPU solutions.


Unfortunately for me the FX series isn't all that good, unless they drop the prices of their FX-4300 and 6300, 8350+.


The next instalment I am looking forward to is Carrizo and Beema. Their APU lineup seem great, shame Kaveri is so expensive but I am too skipping this (I was going to go with it until I saw its price and IPC).


So Phenom for me it is, until something worth while comes along. Instruction sets may push FX ahead but Phenoms raw IPC matters somewhere.

I.E I play ARMA 3 and that feeds on high IPC, so it beats my Richland chip in a flash. My 1035T (2.6Ghz 3.1Ghz turbo) killed my Athlon X4 760K @ 4.6Ghz in that game frown.gif OK the whole module thing and units per core may have impacted but point being is my X6 cost the same as my Athlon X4.



However people ask ridiculous amounts of cash for their Phenoms :O sure they are good and somewhat rare but we don't spend loads on Athlon XPs biggrin.gif
post #90 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

This is why I've got back to Phenom smile.gif if you are going to go to the FX series the only thing I'd consider is the FX-8320.

FX-6300 and you may as well get a Phenom II X4 or even an Athlon X4 (Richland).

FX-8350 and above, and well, there are better CPU solutions.


Unfortunately for me the FX series isn't all that good, unless they drop the prices of their FX-4300 and 6300, 8350+.


The next instalment I am looking forward to is Carrizo and Beema. Their APU lineup seem great, shame Kaveri is so expensive but I am too skipping this (I was going to go with it until I saw its price and IPC).


So Phenom for me it is, until something worth while comes along. Instruction sets may push FX ahead but Phenoms raw IPC matters somewhere.

I.E I play ARMA 3 and that feeds on high IPC, so it beats my Richland chip in a flash. My 1035T (2.6Ghz 3.1Ghz turbo) killed my Athlon X4 760K @ 4.6Ghz in that game frown.gif OK the whole module thing and units per core may have impacted but point being is my X6 cost the same as my Athlon X4.



However people ask ridiculous amounts of cash for their Phenoms :O sure they are good and somewhat rare but we don't spend loads on Athlon XPs biggrin.gif

An FX 6300 is well ahead of a Phenom II x4.
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