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[New Scientist]Pro violinists fail to spot Stradivarius in blind test - Page 3

post #21 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianJ View Post

As a violinist myself and having the pleasure to hear a Stradivarius up close in person, there is a diffidence. Its a very subtle change that would of been easy to miss if I was not paying close attention. Figure most Violinists of this caliber have a violin that is at the top of the food chain. My violin ran me 5k a few years back and is only a upper mid tier. The professionals are playing on stuff that runs 25k and up around here.

With instruments of that tier, they are all master made, as is the Strad, as such have room to be unique in tone and as such opens the door for the ear to fail to hear the Strad.

TL;DR:

Not shocked they had a hard time telling. High end Violins are all made by Masters worthy of the title Master that produce true works of art.

I agree. How it is played also plays a significant part in what is heard. I've also had the pleasure of hearing a Strad at a live concert. There was great emphasis to promote the subtleties of such an old instrument, and that is where you can hear the peculiarities.
Having someone play a random instrument in a concert will not let the musician fully identify the subtleties of the instrument. They will play at their level expecting the instrument to sound a certain way.

If you listen to a musician that has had a Strad for months in practice and being able to select music that also promotes the peculiarities of the instrument is when you can have full appreciation. I think there is a difference between hearing a great musician play, and hearing an instrument sing.
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post #22 of 67
I maybe failing to see the point of the article, but if the point was to state that top notch imitations can very closely resemble the original, well done.
What Stradivari left behind 'tho is superior to the sum of its parts, it's not by chance that violins didn't change much (if at all...) in so many centuries....
It would be like building a perfect copy of Roman Colosseum: "hey look, it's copied so well that you can't distinguish them apart!!!" - "good job, so what?" - "nothing, just sayin..."
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post #23 of 67
I'm not a violinist, but I am a guitarist and bassist...The whole vintage thing is annoying as hell to me, you hear people going on and on about a vintage guitar and saying how much better it is when in reality, there's no more difference than a modern guitar with the same parts.
    
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post #24 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianJ View Post

As a violinist myself and having the pleasure to hear a Stradivarius up close in person, there is a diffidence. Its a very subtle change that would of been easy to miss if I was not paying close attention. Figure most Violinists of this caliber have a violin that is at the top of the food chain. My violin ran me 5k a few years back and is only a upper mid tier. The professionals are playing on stuff that runs 25k and up around here.

With instruments of that tier, they are all master made, as is the Strad, as such have room to be unique in tone and as such opens the door for the ear to fail to hear the Strad.

TL;DR:

Not shocked they had a hard time telling. High end Violins are all made by Masters worthy of the title Master that produce true works of art.

No. There is nothing to distinguish unless people can do so in a blind, controlled test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tombom View Post

tldr

violin nerds just the same as other nerds (headphone, computer, musician, et al)

Not the same. High-end musicians get their instruments loaned for free. And I have yet to listen to a discussion between musicians whether X is better than Y instrument. A Strad my not be worth the price they go for... but they certainly compare to top of the line modern violins... and those aren't cheap at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

I agree. How it is played also plays a significant part in what is heard. I've also had the pleasure of hearing a Strad at a live concert. There was great emphasis to promote the subtleties of such an old instrument, and that is where you can hear the peculiarities.
Having someone play a random instrument in a concert will not let the musician fully identify the subtleties of the instrument. They will play at their level expecting the instrument to sound a certain way.

If you listen to a musician that has had a Strad for months in practice and being able to select music that also promotes the peculiarities of the instrument is when you can have full appreciation. I think there is a difference between hearing a great musician play, and hearing an instrument sing.


This makes absolutely no sense. You don't "show off" your Stradi by picking music that goes well with your instrument. Jeeez, where do you get such ridiculous ideas?

rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif

An instrument doesn't have a sound on its own, specially not a violin (or viola, or cello). The reason being is fairly simple: the mechanical action required for it to sound, and the body attached to it, affects every aspect of the sound. The same instrument played by different musicians will always produce a different sound, which is there are hardly "bad instruments", but bad musicians.
Edited by prava - 4/12/14 at 9:54am
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post #25 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I'm not a violinist, but I am a guitarist and bassist...The whole vintage thing is annoying as hell to me, you hear people going on and on about a vintage guitar and saying how much better it is when in reality, there's no more difference than a modern guitar with the same parts.

True though in the case of guitars there is the fact that older guitars are many times built differently then their current namesakes. For example an Gibson Les Paul gold top form 66 sounds and handles differently (not better just differently) then an Gibson Les Paul gold top 2014 and so if you want the 66 sound/feel you are either going to have to get the real thing or find a custom shop that knows how to build one form scratch.
Edited by Bit_reaper - 4/12/14 at 11:33am
    
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post #26 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

Somehow I'm not surprised as even if Stradivarius instruments where the best ever made they are 300 frikking years old and even under the best conditions thous are going to have some millage on them and the sad fact is that instruments don't last forever.

There are a handful of Strads that have been played very little and being kept with exceptional care but even thous aren't as good now as they where in their prime and thous where most certainly not a part of this study.

Really I think if we could show a modern top of the line violin to Mr. Stradivarius he would be quite impressed.

Actually, the only parts that wear on a violin are the parts that get replaced or are designed to accommodate wear. Strings and the horsehair on bows have to be regularly replaced. The only other wear points are the tuning pegs. They are tapered pegs that fit into a tapered hole and are subject only occasional, limited movement. What miniscule amount of wear that does occur is compensated for by the taper.

When properly cared for, stored with the tension on the strings and bows released, and kept at proper temperature and humidity levels, a well made wooden instrument can last far longer than even the Strads have.
     
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post #27 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post

This makes absolutely no sense. You don't "show off" your Stradi by picking music that goes well with your instrument. Jeeez, where do you get such ridiculous ideas?

Oh yea? Then explain why I never hear 'Devil Went Down To Georgia' performed on a Stradivarius! biggrin.gif
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post #28 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombom View Post

tldr

violin nerds just the same as other nerds (headphone, computer, musician, et al)

True that, especially audiophiles.
     
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post #29 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I'm not a violinist, but I am a guitarist and bassist...The whole vintage thing is annoying as hell to me, you hear people going on and on about a vintage guitar and saying how much better it is when in reality, there's no more difference than a modern guitar with the same parts.

Actually there are huge differences between vintage guitars and modern ones. Whether the sound of one is better than the other is a matter taste but the differences are still there.
     
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post #30 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombom View Post

tldr

violin nerds just the same as other nerds (headphone, computer, musician, et al)
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