Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [New Scientist]Pro violinists fail to spot Stradivarius in blind test
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[New Scientist]Pro violinists fail to spot Stradivarius in blind test - Page 4

post #31 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLAWNOOB View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by .:hybrid:. View Post

Wow I can't believe she chose the Vibrator3000 over the WoodThumper. WoodThumper was made by a porn master 300 years ago as has a unique rhythm that can't be matched by replicated by modern toys. 3/10 would not watch again.

Type in "oh no, oh god no" into YouTube and that's my reaction.


Somehow I ended up watching this, but felt it was relevant enough. And maybe a little educational.
post #32 of 67
Totally forgot about the Violin content.


I actually bought a Violin last week (still in the mail).

Like so many things, someone hundreds of years ago does something right and then it gets such a reputation for superiority that people just overlook all the modern equivalents that completely surpasses it (the Katana fits that description best).

People love mystery and antiquity, and when you combine the two that idea is more powerful than anything else you can show them.
post #33 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Actually, the only parts that wear on a violin are the parts that get replaced or are designed to accommodate wear. Strings and the horsehair on bows have to be regularly replaced. The only other wear points are the tuning pegs. They are tapered pegs that fit into a tapered hole and are subject only occasional, limited movement. What miniscule amount of wear that does occur is compensated for by the taper.

When properly cared for, stored with the tension on the strings and bows released, and kept at proper temperature and humidity levels, a well made wooden instrument can last far longer than even the Strads have.

Everything wears down is use. Every time you pick up a violin, bum the hard case or do anything with the instrument it wears down. The joints creek every so little as the wood moves around its very subtle but it adds up. The once sturdy connections ending up just a wee bit looser and all that effects the sound. That's why the more the instrument is used the more worn down it gets no mater how good care you take of it. That's why "low mileage" Strads are so incredibly highly valued. Even when in perfect storage the wheels of time slowly gnaw at the instrument and lets not forget that for the first 250 years of thous instruments life they where not sitting in an climate controlled storage unit.

If Strads where used daily like an instrument they wold have been used up long ago and like I said very few of the existing Strads can be said to still be in their prime. Still excellent instruments but not as good as they once where.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 OC 4.0 GHz 1.35v HT on Asus P6T 1366 SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 OCZ 12GB DDR3 GOLD/Platinum mix 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB Western digital 300GB Western digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 250Gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
generic LG DVD WC'd , Supreme LT, NexXxoS Xtreme III 360, Phob... Windows 7 x64 Samsung 27" LED S27A550B 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ACER 23" x233H Dell U3415W Logitech G11 Chieftec 850W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks enthoo luxe Razer deathAdder respawn steelseries Qck Yamaha HTR-6130 AV Receiver 
AudioAudio
Yamaha NS-50B floor tower speakers miditech Audiolink II stereo sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 OC 4.0 GHz 1.35v HT on Asus P6T 1366 SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 OCZ 12GB DDR3 GOLD/Platinum mix 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB Western digital 300GB Western digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 250Gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
generic LG DVD WC'd , Supreme LT, NexXxoS Xtreme III 360, Phob... Windows 7 x64 Samsung 27" LED S27A550B 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ACER 23" x233H Dell U3415W Logitech G11 Chieftec 850W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks enthoo luxe Razer deathAdder respawn steelseries Qck Yamaha HTR-6130 AV Receiver 
AudioAudio
Yamaha NS-50B floor tower speakers miditech Audiolink II stereo sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
post #34 of 67
Reminds me of the story of some violinist (or whatever you'd call him) was at this city to play a this huge venue with $100+ tickets - yet, on his day off he played by himself setup outside of a Metro stop - and after being passed by thousands of people, he had made only $18 or so from people dropping change into his case.
Main Rig
(13 items)
 
Secondary Rig
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k MSI Z77A-GD65 Gigabyte 780 OC Gigabyte 780 OC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Ripjaw  Samsung F3  Samsung 830  Asus CD-Rom 
CoolingMonitorMonitorPower
Cooler master hyper 212+  Asus  27in 1440p Auria EQ276W 760 Watt Silencer 
Case
Haf 912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k ASRock Z77 Pro4-M 290 XFX DD R9 280X Gigabyte 
GraphicsGraphicsRAMHard Drive
R9 280X MSI Gaming R9 280X Power Cooler Crucial Ballistix  Samsung 830 series 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Black Asus 24x Windows 7 Asus 24in  
MonitorPowerCase
27in 1440p Auria CM 750 600T 
  hide details  
Reply
Main Rig
(13 items)
 
Secondary Rig
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k MSI Z77A-GD65 Gigabyte 780 OC Gigabyte 780 OC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Ripjaw  Samsung F3  Samsung 830  Asus CD-Rom 
CoolingMonitorMonitorPower
Cooler master hyper 212+  Asus  27in 1440p Auria EQ276W 760 Watt Silencer 
Case
Haf 912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k ASRock Z77 Pro4-M 290 XFX DD R9 280X Gigabyte 
GraphicsGraphicsRAMHard Drive
R9 280X MSI Gaming R9 280X Power Cooler Crucial Ballistix  Samsung 830 series 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Black Asus 24x Windows 7 Asus 24in  
MonitorPowerCase
27in 1440p Auria CM 750 600T 
  hide details  
Reply
post #35 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Reminds me of the story of some violinist (or whatever you'd call him) was at this city to play a this huge venue with $100+ tickets - yet, on his day off he played by himself setup outside of a Metro stop - and after being passed by thousands of people, he had made only $18 or so from people dropping change into his case.

This was done lots of times. Honestly, a silly experiment.
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4790k Asus z87AR R9 290 4GB Sapphire Tri-X Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
WD Black Corsair 240GB SSD Asus crappy drive Windows 8 Ultimate 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG 1080p 24" IPS Panel Ducky Shining Red Cherry MX [Blue LED] 700 Watt Cooler Master PSU Cooler Master Storm Scout 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech 502 Proteus Core Steelseries 4HD Asus Xonar Essence STX Sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4790k Asus z87AR R9 290 4GB Sapphire Tri-X Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
WD Black Corsair 240GB SSD Asus crappy drive Windows 8 Ultimate 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG 1080p 24" IPS Panel Ducky Shining Red Cherry MX [Blue LED] 700 Watt Cooler Master PSU Cooler Master Storm Scout 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech 502 Proteus Core Steelseries 4HD Asus Xonar Essence STX Sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
post #36 of 67
if it cant be overclocked its a crappy instrument!!! LOL tongue.gif
The Cat Box
(14 items)
 
  
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-2820QM NVIDIA 555M 8gb Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600 500GB internal, 1TB external 
Optical DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Dual Layer DVD Windows 7 17.3" 1080p Back-lit 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
90w power brick Dell XPS Logitech Anywhere Mouse MX SteelSeries 5L 
Audio
JBL built in 2.1 speakers, Bose 2.1 desktop audio 
  hide details  
Reply
The Cat Box
(14 items)
 
  
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-2820QM NVIDIA 555M 8gb Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600 500GB internal, 1TB external 
Optical DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Dual Layer DVD Windows 7 17.3" 1080p Back-lit 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
90w power brick Dell XPS Logitech Anywhere Mouse MX SteelSeries 5L 
Audio
JBL built in 2.1 speakers, Bose 2.1 desktop audio 
  hide details  
Reply
post #37 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Actually there are huge differences between vintage guitars and modern ones. Whether the sound of one is better than the other is a matter taste but the differences are still there.

In terms of the parts used, yes there are. I just mean in terms of people valuing older year x over newer year y simply because of the number. Same logic as the people who think a GT640 is faster than a GTX 580 because of the number.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k @ 4.5Ghz ASRock Z77 Pro3 Powercolor Radeon HD7950 3GB @ 1150/1350 4x4GB G.Skill Ares 2000Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 840 250GB Western Digital Black 1TB WD1002FAEX Seagate Barracuda 3TB ST3000DM001 Samsung Spinpoint EcoGreen 2TB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Pioneer DVR-220LBKS Noctua NH-D14 Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1850rpm Corsair AF140 Quiet Edition 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Arcitc Cooling Acclero Twin Turbo II Arch Linux x86-64, amdgpu BenQ G2220HD BenQ G2020HD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine III Year of the Snake, Cherry Blue Silverstone Strider Plus 600w CoolerMaster CM690 II Black and White SteelSeries Sensei Professional 
Mouse PadAudioOther
Artisan Hien Mid Japan Black Large ASUS Xonar DX NZXT Sentry Mesh 30w Fan Controller 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k @ 4.5Ghz ASRock Z77 Pro3 Powercolor Radeon HD7950 3GB @ 1150/1350 4x4GB G.Skill Ares 2000Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 840 250GB Western Digital Black 1TB WD1002FAEX Seagate Barracuda 3TB ST3000DM001 Samsung Spinpoint EcoGreen 2TB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Pioneer DVR-220LBKS Noctua NH-D14 Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1850rpm Corsair AF140 Quiet Edition 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Arcitc Cooling Acclero Twin Turbo II Arch Linux x86-64, amdgpu BenQ G2220HD BenQ G2020HD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine III Year of the Snake, Cherry Blue Silverstone Strider Plus 600w CoolerMaster CM690 II Black and White SteelSeries Sensei Professional 
Mouse PadAudioOther
Artisan Hien Mid Japan Black Large ASUS Xonar DX NZXT Sentry Mesh 30w Fan Controller 
  hide details  
Reply
post #38 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by PappaSmurfsHarem View Post

Actually when it comes to guitar cable there are differences
Really? You should take up James Randi's $1M challenge, I mean, if you can HEAR the differences then you surely can prove yourself in a controlled blind test no? rolleyes.gif

Source for those who are not aware: http://gizmodo.com/305549/james-randi-offers-1-million-if-audiophiles-can-prove-7250-speaker-cables-are-better
Lenovo Y500
(5 items)
 
Byte
(13 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMOS
Intel i7 3630QM NVIDIA Geforce GT 650M SLI 16GB SO-DIMM DDR3 Windows 8 
Audio
AKG K 272 HD 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 3570K Asus P8H77-I GTX 580 Phantom Kingston HyperX blu 1600MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Samsung 840 120GB Thermalright HR-02 Macho Linux Ubuntu Studio 12.04 Super Flower 550W Golden King 
CaseAudioAudioAudio
Bitfenix Prodigy (white) M-Audio Fast Track Pro M-Audio BX5a D2 AKG K 272 HD 
Audio
Behringer B3031A 
  hide details  
Reply
Lenovo Y500
(5 items)
 
Byte
(13 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMOS
Intel i7 3630QM NVIDIA Geforce GT 650M SLI 16GB SO-DIMM DDR3 Windows 8 
Audio
AKG K 272 HD 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 3570K Asus P8H77-I GTX 580 Phantom Kingston HyperX blu 1600MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Samsung 840 120GB Thermalright HR-02 Macho Linux Ubuntu Studio 12.04 Super Flower 550W Golden King 
CaseAudioAudioAudio
Bitfenix Prodigy (white) M-Audio Fast Track Pro M-Audio BX5a D2 AKG K 272 HD 
Audio
Behringer B3031A 
  hide details  
Reply
post #39 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by seepra View Post

Really? You should take up James Randi's $1M challenge, I mean, if you can HEAR the differences then you surely can prove yourself in a controlled blind test no? rolleyes.gif

Source for those who are not aware: http://gizmodo.com/305549/james-randi-offers-1-million-if-audiophiles-can-prove-7250-speaker-cables-are-better

Again you should read my full post. Main differences will be with long runs of cables, also I'm specifically talking about guitar cables that are designed to modify sound.

Here's is some controlled test sound clips to listen too.
http://guitartonenetwork.com/?q=node/68

I'd just try hearing the first 3 notes then switching clips.

You can hear varying treble content, and as I said its because of varying degrees of capacitance.

It's simple physics. Long runs of cable have higher capacitance some guitar cables are designed to have higher capacitance some low. I also said if you put a high impedance buffer in front it negates most if not any changes in frequency content. rolleyes.gif


I'm not going to pretend high dollar cable is better, I'd never pay for it if it was. It may shape the sound but is it in a good way or bad? Sound is so subjective it doesn't really matter
Edited by PappaSmurfsHarem - 4/13/14 at 8:26am
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 7700k Z270M-DH3 UD 1151 MATX Zotac 1070 Amp! Edition CORSAIR 16GB 2X8 D4 3200 C16 VLPX 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 250GB 850 EVO Samsung 250GB 850 EVO Corsair 64GB M4 CORSAIR H110i 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 ASUS VG248QE 24" 1920x1080 144Hz  Corsair K65 - Cherry Reds SEASONIC 80PLUS GOLD X-650 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
NZXT S340 Mid Tower Computer Case Logitech G502 SteelSeries QcK mass 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500k Gigabyte Z68X-ED3H-B3 EVGA GTX 680 8GB (4 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 HyperX Genesis 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
256GB Samsung OEM SSD (SLOW POS) 64GB Samsung 830 64GB Crucial M4 Corsair H100 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit Alienware OptX AW2310 Saitek Eclipse Seasonic X750 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair 650D Logitech G500 Creative Titanium HD 
  hide details  
Reply
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 7700k Z270M-DH3 UD 1151 MATX Zotac 1070 Amp! Edition CORSAIR 16GB 2X8 D4 3200 C16 VLPX 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 250GB 850 EVO Samsung 250GB 850 EVO Corsair 64GB M4 CORSAIR H110i 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 ASUS VG248QE 24" 1920x1080 144Hz  Corsair K65 - Cherry Reds SEASONIC 80PLUS GOLD X-650 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
NZXT S340 Mid Tower Computer Case Logitech G502 SteelSeries QcK mass 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500k Gigabyte Z68X-ED3H-B3 EVGA GTX 680 8GB (4 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 HyperX Genesis 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
256GB Samsung OEM SSD (SLOW POS) 64GB Samsung 830 64GB Crucial M4 Corsair H100 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit Alienware OptX AW2310 Saitek Eclipse Seasonic X750 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair 650D Logitech G500 Creative Titanium HD 
  hide details  
Reply
post #40 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post

Not the same. High-end musicians get their instruments loaned for free. And I have yet to listen to a discussion between musicians whether X is better than Y instrument. A Strad my not be worth the price they go for... but they certainly compare to top of the line modern violins... and those aren't cheap at all.

An instrument doesn't have a sound on its own, specially not a violin (or viola, or cello). The reason being is fairly simple: the mechanical action required for it to sound, and the body attached to it, affects every aspect of the sound. The same instrument played by different musicians will always produce a different sound, which is there are hardly "bad instruments", but bad musicians.

As far as high end musicians getting instruments, I'm not sure what instruments you're referring to. If you're talking about classical, sure, that's how it works. If you're talking about musicians in bands or hip hop type people or even computer enthusiasts or audiophiles, they have to pay for those things themselves. Of course there are going to be discussions between nerds whether X nerdy thing is better than Y nerdy thing and test whether that's true or not scientifically whether it be headphones, heatsinks, fans, radiators, cars, violins, guitars, whatever.

There's tons of blind tests out there that disprove any of these sorts of ideas about inherent craftsmanship no matter what type of "instrument" it is. That is my point. Audiophiles test the crap out of their stuff thoroughly in both blind and comparative tests and the same applies to any sort of instrument humanity makes. There's an argument obviously for how a person USES a certain instrument, but that's not what anyone here is talking about. This is about scientifically validated tests much like headphone tests or even heatsink or fan or radiator tests designed to show that of course there are differences in quality related to craftsmanship, but nothing is made uniquely. Take the pepsi challenge for me. Of course there's going to be a difference in a BMW vs a Ferrari. Two very different styles and execution. There's going to be a difference between a Telecaster and Stratocaster and Squire and Jazzmaster. Artists choose their instruments based on their limitations and knowledge. I'm sure every violinist in the world would love a Stradivarius but that doesn't make it inherently better than something cheaper and equally as crafted. That's what places like overclock.net are designed to do. Independent scientific research that betters the knowledge of everyone.

Just because the TRUE copper was one of the best heatsinks of its time doesn't still make it the best heatsink for anyone to recommend. Do you understand?

Violin nerds are not special. The rules of science do not bend for them. Your special Italian wood (isn't that why they're so special? some special river floated wood and genius level craftsmanship right?) doesn't make you inherently better than the product you produce, which linearly (or whatever function) decreases with time as others have pointed out. Scientific BLIND TESTS have SHOWN and are probably REPRODUCIBLE by ANYONE IN THE WORLD that the NORMAL human cannot distinguish between a Stradivarius and an equally well made instrument.

tldr: violin nerds are the same as other types of nerds
Edited by tombom - 4/13/14 at 10:20pm
HAF 912 Rig
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3570k delid Gigabyte Z77-D3H Galaxy GTX 680 Kingston Hyper X 4x2GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Toshiba 2TB HDD 90GB Corsair Force 3 H70 w/ push/pull panaflo W7 ult. 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ XL2420T w/ lighboost hack 24/7 Coolermaster Quickfire with Cherry Browns Rosewill HIVE 750w Coolermaster HAF912 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Windows Mouse Optical Puretrak Talent Fiio E7 > Denon AHD2000 
  hide details  
Reply
HAF 912 Rig
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3570k delid Gigabyte Z77-D3H Galaxy GTX 680 Kingston Hyper X 4x2GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Toshiba 2TB HDD 90GB Corsair Force 3 H70 w/ push/pull panaflo W7 ult. 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ XL2420T w/ lighboost hack 24/7 Coolermaster Quickfire with Cherry Browns Rosewill HIVE 750w Coolermaster HAF912 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Windows Mouse Optical Puretrak Talent Fiio E7 > Denon AHD2000 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [New Scientist]Pro violinists fail to spot Stradivarius in blind test