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[SD/LP] Navy Creates Fuel From Seawater (VIDEO) - Page 3

post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by lin2dev View Post

The fuel isn't free but it is a method of taking the surplus of energy available aboard carriers and using that it eliminate a logistical issue. Carbon can be taken out of the air, hydrogen out of the water and Yay kerosine
This is probably a logistical officer's wet dream

There is no such thing as "surplus" energy on a nuclear power plant. The plant can not just "idle".

Either expose the core enough to produce energy, which degrades the core OR you don't. There is really no middle ground.

Every kilowatt of energy you are using is depleting the nuclear core.
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post #22 of 47
This tech isn't new. "Been able to run an RC engine" come on. People in the late 80's ran car engines on fuel made form water. The main issue is how extremely inefficient the conversion process is. If they can scale this up and actually produce high quality fuel at half decent yields then that would be something new but form the looks of it they can't. Not yet anyway.
Edited by Bit_reaper - 4/9/14 at 12:32pm
    
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post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post



Though I can't see why a land based nuclear plant couldn't be set up to make the fuel as well without the all the cons of solar power. Sure, we will put more energy in then we get out, but it would not require all of our vehicles to be made electric so we could make use of the nuclear plant more directly.

Let me tackle this nuclear myth right now.

Nuclear power is very expensive. There is currently no solution to nuclear waste. And if you deal with the whole process, it cost more to deal with nuclear then it produces.

Nuclear power requires capital to build, capital to maintain, and capital to decommission.

Lets look at the numbers.

To actually run a current nuclear power plant is between 9 and 14 cents per kilowatt. The market value for that energy is about 6 cents per kilowatt.

So the government has to had over a subsidy every where year to cover the different between the cost to run the reactor and the market value. Which means, all total, the government hands out about 58 billion dollars to nuclear companies just to keep them running.

But the problem with nuclear does not stop there.

After the plant runs its life, the company that ran it take the profits to other holdings and declares bankruptcy. The federal government then must come in and decommission the plant. If you force the nuclear companies to actually do this, the cost per kilowatt would go up to almost 1.30 cents a kilowatt, remember the market value is 6 cents per kilowatt.

When you add all the little things that is either funded by or taken care of by the tax paper, the total cost of nuclear power is 30 cents to 4 dollars a kilowatt. Depending on the company.

And that does not even address the biggest problem with nuclear power.

The waste that is produce by the nuclear power is just being stored because the cost of dealing with it would make even the federal government cringe. Which is why we started to store it in a mountain then dealing with it. In places like the uk, where they process the waste, the cost for nuclear is increased by 4 to 7 cents a kilowatt.

Now I don't know your "cons" of solar panels, but I have yet to see one produce a nuclear meltdown or leave waste in the ground for thousands of year.


http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/nuclear_power/nuclear_subsidies_report.pdf

And again...compare that to the amount it will cost to replace all the cars with electric...and to upgrade all the power grids to handle the increased load. Or do the same with hydrogen and build pipe lines and depots for it. If this process could make diesel fuel or close enough...you could have a few plants running 24/7 making fuel out of water for pennies on the dollar most likely.


Though the discussion wasn't even about using nuclear for electricity...the last I heard the average cost per kw/hour was $.11 in the US....not $.06. Then you throw in the newer plant processes that produce less waste...I think it is a bit cheaper than you are thinking. They virtually cannot melt down. If people could get over that myth we could start having home furnaces running tiny thorium reactors or something really revolutionary. Its the start up costs to build a reactor that is the biggest hurdle. They can cost well over $10 billion to build these days. Though if they could become more common place...they would come down in price.

The major con of solar panels is that they only work when the sun shines on them.


Though if you look at the sources of that report...they don't look that good. Most of them are about upgrading or building new reactors and we all know that is expensive. Plus others are just going off something not really related.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 4/9/14 at 12:43pm
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post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

This tech isn't new. "Been able to run an RC engine" come on people in the late 80's ran car engines on fuel made form water. The main issue is how extremely inefficient the conversion process is. If they can scale this up and actually produce high quality fuel at half decent yields then that would be something new but form the looks of it they can't. Not yet anyway.


My thoughts exactly. I see toys designed to run off of salt water, using home kits (provided), all the time.
    
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post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

This tech isn't new. "Been able to run an RC engine" come on. People in the late 80's ran car engines on fuel made form water. The main issue is how extremely inefficient the conversion process is. If they can scale this up and actually produce high quality fuel at half decent yields then that would be something new but form the looks of it they can't. Not yet anyway.

The real problem is big oil, nothing else.

There is no profit in efficiency.
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post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by xFALL3Nx View Post

The real problem is big oil, nothing else.

There is no profit in efficiency.

make the perfect vehicle that lasts forever > everyone buys it and keeps it forever > no more business
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post #27 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

And again...compare that to the amount it will cost to replace all the cars with electric...and to upgrade all the power grids to handle the increased load. Or do the same with hydrogen and build pipe lines and depots for it. If this process could make diesel fuel or close enough...you could have a few plants running 24/7 making fuel out of water for pennies on the dollar most likely.


Though the discussion wasn't even about using nuclear for electricity...the last I heard the average cost per kw/hour was $.11 in the US....not $.06. Then you throw in the newer plant processes that produce less waste...I think it is a bit cheaper than you are thinking. They virtually cannot melt down. If people could get over that myth we could start having home furnaces running tiny thorium reactors or something really revolutionary. Its the start up costs to build a reactor that is the biggest hurdle. They can cost well over $10 billion to build these days. Though if they could become more common place...they would come down in price.

The major con of solar panels is that they only work when the sun shines on them.


Though if you look at the sources of that report...they don't look that good. Most of them are about upgrading or building new reactors and we all know that is expensive. Plus others are just going off something not really related.


Market value for electricity in the area where nuclear is use is between 6 to 9 cents a kilowatt. The real cost in producing nuclear from NEW plants is close to 8 dollars a kilowatt.


There is simply no "one" way to fix our power problems. Nuclear is currently at the bottom of the heap when it comes to cost vs management.


I am going to have to ask for proof now.

Prove the following statements.

"you could have a few plants running 24/7 making fuel out of water for pennies on the dollar most likely."

"When you throw in the newer plant processes that produce less waste...I think it is a bit cheaper than you are thinking. They virtually cannot melt down."


Solar only works during the daytime, which means you are going to not only have a lot of them, but make the world more efficient at using that power.


Bottom line.

The original article is simply a way to produce fuel if you are not worrying about the extra cost and extra energy consumption.

Honda currently has solar powered hydrogen charging stations for the Honda FCX that can do 2 kg of hydrogen in 24 hours, which is about 140 miles of driving per day.
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post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

Market value for electricity in the area where nuclear is use is between 6 to 9 cents a kilowatt. The real cost in producing nuclear from NEW plants is close to 8 dollars a kilowatt.


There is simply no "one" way to fix our power problems. Nuclear is currently at the bottom of the heap when it comes to cost vs management.


I am going to have to ask for proof now.

Prove the following statements.

"you could have a few plants running 24/7 making fuel out of water for pennies on the dollar most likely."

"When you throw in the newer plant processes that produce less waste...I think it is a bit cheaper than you are thinking. They virtually cannot melt down."


Solar only works during the daytime, which means you are going to not only have a lot of them, but make the world more efficient at using that power.


Bottom line.

The original article is simply a way to produce fuel if you are not worrying about the extra cost and extra energy consumption.

Honda currently has solar powered hydrogen charging stations for the Honda FCX that can do 2 kg of hydrogen in 24 hours, which is about 140 miles of driving per day.

qft
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post #29 of 47
Interesting... but how efficient is it? If they spend a ton of energy to create liquid fuel, then what was the point? In addition, worded poorly, but how much energy is in this fuel.. is the plane using 2x the fuel than if it were gasoline. I also wonder about the corrosiveness that saltwater has to the devices that will be producing this fuel.
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post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by lin2dev View Post

The fuel isn't free but it is a method of taking the surplus of energy available aboard carriers and using that it eliminate a logistical issue. Carbon can be taken out of the air, hydrogen out of the water and Yay kerosine
This is probably a logistical officer's wet dream

Not at all, they take the carbon present naturally in the ocean. In fact the co2 concentration is 200 times greater in the sea water than it is in the air according to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrzev View Post

Interesting... but how efficient is it? If they spend a ton of energy to create liquid fuel, then what was the point? In addition, worded poorly, but how much energy is in this fuel.. is the plane using 2x the fuel than if it were gasoline. I also wonder about the corrosiveness that saltwater has to the devices that will be producing this fuel.

There are many ways to prevent any corrosion to happen. I don't think that's the question anyway but you can either apply a tension (the current will provide the electron and the metal won't corrode - useful for part hard in maintenance) or simply put anode that will sacrifice their electron and corrode (this is what every ship have on their hull to prevent corrosion).

Plus, it takes many years (5-10 years) before you need to replace some piece if the engineer properly design the system without any protection.
Edited by Just a nickname - 4/9/14 at 3:11pm
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