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Dark brown goop building up on walls of reservoir - is it the kill coil? - Page 3

post #21 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanBruce View Post

OK, thank you very much, just saved a little money, also will there be any metallurgic galvanic reactive issues using nickel plated Monsoon fittings with the copper brass rad?

Sorry to hijack this nice man's thread, but you guys just ROCK. biggrin.gif

There will always be chances of corrosion when mixing metals, always.
However, nickel, brass, and copper together are relatively safe.
Still I would use anti-corrision unless I could get only copper in the soup.
And that's never going to happen.

Some guys dont use any corrision protection and are just fine.....not everybody tho.
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post #22 of 35
Thread Starter 
I just finished tearing the loop apart. In addition to the brown gunk in the reservoir, there is another substance attached to the walls of the tubing. Here is a picture of what I'm talking about:



I had a difficult time getting the camera to focus but hopefully you can make out the greyish substance I'm referring to. Is this plasticizer? If so, could it come from something other than the tubing because from what I've read, PrimoChill Primoflex Advanced LRT doesn't do this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE View Post

the whit crud at the waterline is a contaminant,possibly rad debris or acrylic swarf from a block.

The brown looks organic,possibly because the condensate being stagnant,pull a fitting and check the threads or any other part of the loop with low flow,if there is brown crap in those too then its almost certainly organics

I checked the threads on the fittings and there is indeed something on them. It looks similar to the substance on the walls of the tubing only the color of it is more like a seafoam green. Is it possible these are all the same substance and something caused it to turn brown in the reservoir?


Thanks again, I really appreciate the help.
post #23 of 35
A green substance on your fitting threads?
And you said you used biocide, right?

Dude, you got one weird soup going on in that loop.
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post #24 of 35
It's plasticizer all around. Plasticizer can very commonly appear greenish, especially if it traps some copper oxides in it, formed from free copper ions floating in your loop combining with other impurites.

I think it is also very plausible to see extra gunky buildup of plasticizer at the waterline in a res, since the action of the agitating and changing water level can cause it to dry more noticeably there, and keep building up thicker on the same spot once it's laid down.

BTW someone else posted about silver kill coils stopping working when the loop stops circulating, and that's completely wrong. Kill coils work by leeching free silver ions into the coolant, which then circulates. The ions don't suck back into the kill coil when you turn the pump off, they stay in solution in the coolant. The free ions are what kill microbes, not the microbes washing over the solid coil.
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post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by threephi View Post

BTW someone else posted about silver kill coils stopping working when the loop stops circulating, and that's completely wrong. Kill coils work by leeching free silver ions into the coolant, which then circulates. The ions don't suck back into the kill coil when you turn the pump off, they stay in solution in the coolant. The free ions are what kill microbes, not the microbes washing over the solid coil.

Agreed! thumb.gif
I didn't want to bother correcting it.
But yeah, the silver will work all around the loop.
Not just where the skc is.
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post #26 of 35
I would love to finally see someone take a sample of res and tube sludge to test once and for all whether it's organic or plasticizer...
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post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by threephi View Post

It's plasticizer all around. Plasticizer can very commonly appear greenish, especially if it traps some copper oxides in it, formed from free copper ions floating in your loop combining with other impurites.

I think it is also very plausible to see extra gunky buildup of plasticizer at the waterline in a res, since the action of the agitating and changing water level can cause it to dry more noticeably there, and keep building up thicker on the same spot once it's laid down.

BTW someone else posted about silver kill coils stopping working when the loop stops circulating, and that's completely wrong. Kill coils work by leeching free silver ions into the coolant, which then circulates. The ions don't suck back into the kill coil when you turn the pump off, they stay in solution in the coolant. The free ions are what kill microbes, not the microbes washing over the solid coil.

Plasticizer in a 4 month old loop using Primochill Advanced LRT tubing would be extremely surprising to me. I've never heard of anyone with plasticizer issues using that tubing for MUCH longer periods of time than that. Advanced LRT is what's recommended most in the plasticizer threads so that you won't have plasticizer issues. Different color buildup in different places, green here and brown there, etc, doesn't seem like plasticizer either to me.

Using just a kill coil as a biocide makes me suspect something(s) organic, especially if the loop was turned off for long periods &/or frequently for short periods because, despite your misconceptions, kill coils do NOT give off silver ions that work throughout a loop or when a loop is not running. A silver coil is only effective while the water is kept moving past it.
Edited by Unicr0nhunter - 4/13/14 at 8:42pm
post #28 of 35
Well I'll grant that it's possible there is some growth going on here, although I don't think it is. That's why I'd really love to see the OP scrape off some samples from a few spots and do a little testing on it thumb.gif Everything posted here so far looks exactly like other cases of plasticizer that I've seen in the past, and I haven't seen anything yet that makes me think it's more likely to be algae. But I could be wrong.

Regarding the tubing, it's possible for different batches to have slightly different characteristics, and I don't think Primochill claims that it's absolutely guaranteed to be 100% free from plasticizer issues to begin with, just that it's much better than their previous tubing. And there might be something in the chemistry of this particular loop which we haven't identified yet which is making it worse than average. It's also possible the tubing he bought was mis-labelled and was the older Pro version with it's well-known plasticizer problems. So I'm not convinced that it can just be flatly ruled out based on reputation alone.

And I think it's entirely possible, in fact common, for plasticizer to look different in different spots. A few causes off the top of my head would be mixing with other impurities, interacting differently with the different materials it's deposited on in different locations, and different levels of aeration as it accumulates changing how it looks.

But like I said, I could be wrong and maybe there is something growing here. I would actually love to see someone get documented proof that their tube or res sludge is in fact algae or some other microbe. I've never seen such a case yet however, compared with many other instances where it was shown to be plasticizer.

One thing that is widely and firmly established science however, is how silver works as an antimicrobial. You're just wrong on that one my friend. The silver coil releases ions into the liquid, because that's what any pure metal does when it's in water. Then the silver ions kill by interfering with cellular respiration as well as other processes.

You don't need for there to be a physical coil at all, all you need is dissolved pure silver for it to work. I suppose it's possible that if you let the loop stay stagnant for a long time, the ions might eventually settle out to the bottom of whatever tube or block they were in, but I think it would take a really long time since there are other forces at play that would keep the ions suspended.
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post #29 of 35
I make my own collodial silver for personal consumption.
And I can tell you for a fact that silver will release ions into water.
That is what collodial silver is.....and I ingest it.
The active ingredient is the silver ions released into the water.
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post #30 of 35
Of course it is, but that's not how a silver kill coil works. Silver kill coils do not dissolve and release enough silver ions into the water to maintain any sort of effectiveness throughout the loop. Almost all of the biocidal activity occurs when the water contacts the kill coil itself, and it requires a constant flow past it to remain effective. It's not an effective biocide if the loop is turned off for lengths of time.
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