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Need help on a PSU aquisition...

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
Hi all here is my rig

AMD FX4170 4.2ghz - Possibly upgrading to a 8 core in the future
AMD 7950
GB 990FX rev 2 Motherboard
Antec kuhler 620 water cooler
2x 4GB DDR3 Ram
DVD-RW - updgrading to a BR burner soon
3-4 usb devices connected
2x HDD
1x SSD
Antec 902 case
Be Quite PSU - fan not working


OK so every calculator i looked at, was saying 1000 watt + required but this site says 850 is more than enough, even with slight OC. even if i decided to upgrade GFX to 290 (though the 290x seems to push it beyond what 850 watt can handle)

My temps rise exponentially random times for no reason, no dust nothing, so I'm starting to believe the problem is the PSU. Had it for 7 years at least and the fan not working for the last 2 years i think its finally just not powering enough.

I started looking at the RM1000 but after using the calculator here i realised that the 850 was sufficient. And it was finally within my budget of £100 ish. Then i started reading all the bad reviews about it getting extremely hot before the fan kicking in and the components being of the lower end scale in quality despite the price tag. Being a PSU I'm on the bandwagon where you really cant gimp on the components being the most important part if the PC.

So with the above in mind i have 2 questions:

1. Is the calculator here accurate enough, and should 850 watt PSU be sufficient?

and 2. If the above is yes, with the RM1000/850 having negative reviews in the heat department (which is my current problem) what PSU can you recommend within the £100 range?


Any advice would be greatly appreciated as id like to order one today if possible smile.gif

Thanks
post #2 of 30

No, even with a 290X, your system would not need anything 'bigger' than a good quality-made 550W PSU. Proof:

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,10.html

 

With one R9 290X under full load in their system, their PSU pulled 396W from the wall outlet. So, let's round that up to 400W. Now, if I add 200W for your CPU (very unlikely overkill here, but hey), then that makes the PSU pulling 600W from the wall outlet. This means that if your PSU were 90% efficient while pulling 600W from the wall outlet, then your computer is pulling 540W from the PSU. Your gaming power consumption would be even lower, never exceeding about 500-515W.

 

So, I don't know how those calculators were giving you 850W and higher, but WOW... they are extremely inaccurate!

It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
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It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
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Reply
post #3 of 30
Thread Starter 
I am currently using this:

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

found on this site. With my set up its around 700 watts, however with the 290x its almost pushing to 900 watts.....

So your saying 850 is overkill? Would have thought 850 would of at least been minimum (not looked into pc parts for years now so that may have been a totally foolish comment lol)

With that said, which PSU would you recommend, with the knowledge of a potential upgrade to the fx 8 series and the 290 at a later date? And also a recommendation for one with the current setup i have (which is more than sufficient at the moment for my gaming needs.


Thanks
post #4 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaosprime View Post

I am currently using this:

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

found on this site. With my set up its around 700 watts, however with the 290x its almost pushing to 900 watts.....

So your saying 850 is overkill? Would have thought 850 would of at least been minimum (not looked into pc parts for years now so that may have been a totally foolish comment lol)

With that said, which PSU would you recommend, with the knowledge of a potential upgrade to the fx 8 series and the 290 at a later date? And also a recommendation for one with the current setup i have (which is more than sufficient at the moment for my gaming needs.


Thanks

 

Ok, run that calculator again. This time, click the calculator's built-in Print button and take a screenshot and post it (.PNG format though please for perfect image clarity). I want to show you why it's giving you an incorrect calculation, other than being an internet PSU calculator. I mean, it may be the best internet PSU calculator, but it still sucks.

 

Anyway, if you don't believe me, then go over what I said again:

 

"http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,10.html

 

With one R9 290X under full load in their system, their PSU pulled 396W from the wall outlet. So, let's round that up to 400W. Now, if I add 200W for your CPU (very unlikely overkill here, but hey), then that makes the PSU pulling 600W from the wall outlet. This means that if your PSU were 90% efficient while pulling 600W from the wall outlet, then your computer is pulling 540W from the PSU. Your gaming power consumption would be even lower, never exceeding about 500-515W."

 

The PSU(s) I recommend will depend on what store(s) you can order from and also how much you can spend.

It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
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Reply
It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5 of 30
Thread Starter 
290x.png 42k .png file

7950.png 43k .png file

very silly me, I was looking around £100 max as I'm on a tight budget this month. And two Cables thanks a lot in advance, i really appreciate your help in this.

As a side note, would the PSU be the reason for my over heating?

Oh and please, do not be offended, it is not that i do not believe you, it is more the curious mind of mine trying to understand and soak everything in. back in the day of the old AMD 4 and 5 series, them GPU's use to require silly power ^^
post #6 of 30

You're very welcome!

 

For some reason, I'm not able to get those attachments. Please post them again using the Insert Image button on the toolbar on OCN's post editor.

It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7 of 30
Thread Starter 






Here you are smile.gif
post #8 of 30

Awesome. Thank you!

 

So, here are the culprits for these extremely high calculations:

 

  1. High-End Desktop. You have a Regular one.
  2. Do you really have a PCI IDE card?
  3. Do you really have a 2nd PCI card? Or, do you have just one PCI card in total?
  4. 4 USB devices. Most people add 2 for their mouse and keyboard. If you did that, then remove them because this calculator has the calculation for a mouse and a keyboard built into it.
  5. Do you really have two high-performance fans? Which fans are they?
  6. Do you really have a pump relay in addition to the Corsair H80?
  7. System Load: this should be at about 75% unless you are Folding on both the CPU and the video card at the same time.
  8. Capacitor Aging: this is the main problem. 35% is EXTREMELY unrealistic for a good PSU. 10% is the highest that should be selected because really, capacitor aging is not an issue with good PSUs if all of the caps are high-quality Japanese ones.

 

Here are your new calculations with only the following changes:

 

  1. High-End Desktop to Regular
  2. System Load from 90% to 75%
  3. Capacitor Aging to 10%. It should be none though (just being honest).

 

I used the Pro Version of this calculator in order to show what it recommends for the +12V capacity. It's extremely revealing:

 

ChaosPrimePSU7950.png

 

30.6A on 12V of power is 367.2W. This means that you could power this with a good quality-made 400W PSU if you really wanted to. So, why do they recommend 411 and 461W? I really don't know. lol Again, 30.6A is only 367.2W. Even if it were 31A, that would still only be 372W which is 12W less than the +12V capacity of some pretty good 400W PSUs (32A, 384W).

 

A good quality-made 450W PSU is easier to find these days though.

 

 

ChaosPrimePSUR9290x.png

 

42.3A on 12V of power is 507.6W. That is only 3.6W higher than 504W, which is the typical +12V capacity of some semi-decent 550W PSUs. Good 550W PSUs usually have a +12V capacity of 540W, which is 45A. So yeah, you could power this one with a good quality-made 550W PSU pretty easily.

 

Still not convinced?

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/his_radeon_hd_7950_review,8.html

 

With one 7950W under full load in their system, their PSU pulled 300W from the wall outlet. Their CPU was idling, so if I add even 200W for your CPU under full load (a bit too much, but hey!), then that makes the PSU pulling 500W from the wall outlet. This means that if the PSU is 90% efficient while pulling 500W from the wall, then the computer is pulling 450W from the PSU. Your gaming power consumption for this would never exceed 400-425W. However, again, I added 200W for the CPU which is pretty crazy. If I add something more reasonable like 150W, then the power "extreme" consumption (before looking at the gaming power consumption) would be 405W (450W x .90). This would mean that the gaming power consumption would peak at roughly 375W. That would be very easy for a good quality-made 450W PSU.

 

Now, onto the R9 290X:

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,10.html

 

With one R9 290X under full load in their system, their PSU pulled 396W from the wall outlet. Let's just use 400W. So, if I add 200W for the CPU again, then that makes the PSU pulling 600W from the wall outlet. This means that if the PSU were 90% efficient while pulling 600W from the wall, then the computer is pulling 540W from the PSU and the gaming power consumption would peak at about 500-525W. However, that's kind if ridiculously high. If I add 150W for the CPU instead, then the "extreme" power consumption becomes 495W (550 x .90), and the maximum gaming power consumption becomes about 450W. That would be very easy for a good quality-made 550W PSU.


Edited by TwoCables - 4/11/14 at 4:18am
It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaosprime View Post







Here you are smile.gif

You used Capacitor Aging you dont need to use that remove it and also lower your system load to 75%. A good 550 watts PSU is all you need 850 and 1000 watts is for PC´s with 3 high end video cards
Seravee
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Intel Core I7 6850K Gigabyte X99 Ultra Gaming EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2 Kingston HyperX DDR4 Savage 3000 MHz 
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Samsung 840 Evo WD Green WD60EZRX  WD Red WD80EFZX 8TB  Seagate Ironwolf Pro 10 TB 
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LG CH12NS30 x5 Noctua NF-A14 FLX Noctua NH-D15S Windows 7 64 Bit 
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AudioAudioAudioAudio
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x2 Dali Opticon 1 CableMod E series PSU cable set CableMod LED Strips 
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Seravee
(27 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core I7 6850K Gigabyte X99 Ultra Gaming EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2 Kingston HyperX DDR4 Savage 3000 MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 840 Evo WD Green WD60EZRX  WD Red WD80EFZX 8TB  Seagate Ironwolf Pro 10 TB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingOS
LG CH12NS30 x5 Noctua NF-A14 FLX Noctua NH-D15S Windows 7 64 Bit 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Asus PG279Q LG 49UH750V 4K LED TV Corsair Gaming Strafe RGB EVGA SuperNova G2 750 watt 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks Enthoo Luxe Roccat Kone EMP Roccat Sense Metor Sennheiser HD 598 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Onkyo TX NR646  Harman Kardon HKTS 60 Dali Opticon Vokal x2 Dali Opticon 2 
AudioOtherOther
x2 Dali Opticon 1 CableMod E series PSU cable set CableMod LED Strips 
  hide details  
Reply
post #10 of 30
Thread Starter 
Yup thats cleared a lot of things up for me smile.gif Thanks a bunch! So I am only looking at 600watt max for my setup even with the new potential gfx and cpu. Still wont top it. from a quick search PSU around 450-600w is about £50. A considerable save in my wallet as well!

Yup this read has been very informative!. By the way, i plug my PC into a surge protected extension block from the wall socket. Would that matter much?


But with the above out the way, which PSU would you recommend smile.gif I am in the UK so Overclockers, Amazon, Ebyer, Scan are all retailers i can look at when purchasing among others.

Thanks!
Edited by Chaosprime - 4/11/14 at 4:32am
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