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post #41 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artev View Post

what exactly are the benefits over foobar? sound quality or is it organization?

Certainly not organization, as JPLAY has none.

Without going into a lot of detail, JPLAY just uses much less of a computers resources to play music. In fact, you can play music with the computer in hibernate.
Digital file --> Computer Memory ---> USB port --->DAC ---> Amp ---> Speakers. (??? Soundcard/Onboard --->)

I'm not a good source for info on the many way of setting up JPLAY. I don't even know if it will work with a sound card/onboard sound as I've never done that. I would assume so, since it can be incorporated into Foobar2000, though that's neither optimal, not the way I do it.

In my set up, JPLAY copies the digital music file onto my computer memory (note, this is not "load into memory, that's different, it's copy to memory). I have an asynchronous external DAC. The DAC then asynchronously streams the digital file from the memory to itself using it's internal clock and timing the transfer asynchronously, no windows clocks are used so jitter is minimized. Asyncronous transfers benefit from the ability to send and receive data simultaneously, so when a data packet is sent, the DAC doesn't have to wait until it receives a data packet to "order up" the next packet. The next packet is there and ready to send as soon as the DAC calls for it. This transfer is accomplished using a windows kernel streaming driver and thus no part of the OS is used other than the kernel. The OS I use is a massively stripped out version of Windows Server2012 R2. Any music will sound better on Windows Server as that OS in optimized for data transfer. Accomplishing this was neither easy not quick (Consider the 1,853 changes I made to Windows Server!), but just trying JPLAY straight up should show you it's capabilities.

The JPLAY site is kind of hard to get info from as most questions are handled in their forum, though there is a manual available.
Edited by billbartuska - 4/15/14 at 7:53am
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post #42 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

I already have onboard audio disabled. I'm a geek. Come on. lol smile.gif

i almost didn't even type that haha just trying to cover all the bases... (we all forget to do basics occasionally)

i have a pair of q701's paired with a vali tube amp and can turn my volume ALL the way up (to the point it would blow out my eardrums) without distortion/compression/signal noise using foobar (or winamp) so i still think you have a fundamental problem... but... if you're happy, it's probably not worth chasing the rabbit down its hole smile.gif
post #43 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post

Certainly not organization, as JPLAY has none.

Without going into a lot of detail, JPLAY just uses much less of a computers resources to play music. In fact, you can play music with the computer in hibernate.
Digital file --> Computer Memory ---> USB port --->DAC ---> Amp ---> Speakers. (??? Soundcard/Onboard --->)

I'm not a good source for info on the many way of setting up JPLAY. I don't even know if it will work with a sound card/onboard sound as I've never done that. I would assume so, since it can be incorporated into Foobar2000, though that's neither optimal, not the way I do it.

In my set up, JPLAY copies the digital music file onto my computer memory (note, this is not "load into memory, that's different, it's copy to memory). I have an asynchronous external DAC. The DAC then asynchronously streams the digital file from the memory to itself using it's internal clock and timing the transfer asynchronously, no windows clocks are used so jitter is minimized. Asyncronous transfers benefit from the ability to send and receive data simultaneously, so when a data packet is sent, the DAC doesn't have to wait until it receives a data packet to "order up" the next packet. The next packet is there and ready to send as soon as the DAC calls for it. This transfer is accomplished using a windows kernel streaming driver and thus no part of the OS is used other than the kernel. The OS I use is a massively stripped out version of Windows Server2012 R2. Any music will sound better on Windows Server as that OS in optimized for data transfer.

i have a low-end external DAC (e7) and was considering upgrading to an Aune T1 (tube DAC) or a Schiit Modi... do you think there is value in moving up?

i am considering building a dedicated audio PC, i will have to look into windows server
post #44 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artev View Post


i almost didn't even type that haha just trying to cover all the bases... (we all forget to do basics occasionally)

i have a pair of q701's paired with a vali tube amp and can turn my volume ALL the way up (to the point it would blow out my eardrums) without distortion/compression/signal noise using foobar (or winamp) so i still think you have a fundamental problem... but... if you're happy, it's probably not worth chasing the rabbit down its hole smile.gif

 

I'm saying that I"m doing this:

 

Winamp volume: Linear, 100%

 

Windows: maybe 30-45%

 

Speakers: maybe 60-65%

 

Even if I turn both the Windows and speaker volume down to a level where I could hold a conversation with someone, having Winamp at 100% or just way above 50% results in that sound as though I'm using a compressor, but slightly. In Entertainment Mode, it's even worse. Casual listeners like people who are like the opposite of a geek wouldn't notice at all - or care. "I can hear the music. It's loud enough. So, what's the big deal?"

 

If I have Winamp's volume control disabled and do all volume control with Windows and speakers, it's somewhat like having Winamp at 100%. So, it's better, but not perfect. It's only perfect if I go like say below 60% or something. Or, I'll go with anything below 50% for a nice round number.

 

Now, you said that you're not using a sound card? This might be the difference, I'm not sure.

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post #45 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

I'm saying that I"m doing this:

Winamp volume: Linear, 100%

Windows: maybe 30-45%

Speakers: maybe 60-65%

Even if I turn both the Windows and speaker volume down to a level where I could hold a conversation with someone, having Winamp at 100% or just way above 50% results in that sound as though I'm using a compressor, but slightly. In Entertainment Mode, it's even worse. Casual listeners like people who are like the opposite of a geek wouldn't notice at all - or care. "I can hear the music. It's loud enough. So, what's the big deal?"

If I have Winamp's volume control disabled and do all volume control with Windows and speakers, it's somewhat like having Winamp at 100%. So, it's better, but not perfect. It's only perfect if I go like say below 60% or something. Or, I'll go with anything below 50% for a nice round number.

Now, you said that you're not using a sound card? This might be the difference, I'm not sure.

with my external DAC or my sound blaster Z i can put everything at 100 volume (windows/foobar (or winamp)/amp) without distortion or compression noise through my headphones...

i really want to try with my desktop speakers (a lepai chinese amp + dayton b652's) but i think it will draw attention in my office...

umm cabling? have you tried different audio cables? i had a cord that was frayed and it caused distortion/weird glitchy issues in the audio...

i dont know how much effort it is worth if you're satisfied with the audio you're getting now
post #46 of 86
@ TwoCables:

Does Winamp us a digital volume control? I believe it does and it sounds to me (IMHO) that you are doing the exact opposite of what you should do.
Run your windows volume at 100%
Run your Winamp volume and speakers at comfortable volumes. in respect to the music. (if you wanted to run your speaker volume full bore - the equivalent of turning up your gain on a power amp - you can). This means your volume would be controlled by Winamp exclusively. However when you are not in Winamp - everything is getting everything full tilt! Since I run all of my media inside of JRiver all I need is JRiver's digital volume control. I also use WASAPI (or ASIO at times) and I bypass windows Kmixer all together.
post #47 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artev View Post


with my external DAC or my sound blaster Z i can put everything at 100 volume (windows/foobar (or winamp)/amp) without distortion or compression noise through my headphones...

i really want to try with my desktop speakers (a lepai chinese amp + dayton b652's) but i think it will draw attention in my office...

 

No, trust me: that will turn into a huge office party. Go for it! :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artev View Post


umm cabling? have you tried different audio cables? i had a cord that was frayed and it caused distortion/weird glitchy issues in the audio...

i dont know how much effort it is worth if you're satisfied with the audio you're getting now

 

I don't see how it could be the cable with the way it's behaving. Even if I have Windows at like 15%, Winamp at 100%, and my speakers at a comfortable volume with that 15 and 100 combo, the compressor-like effect is still there just as much as it is with Windows at say 75% (Winamp at 100%) and speakers at a comfortable listening level for that combo.

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post #48 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artev View Post

i have a low-end external DAC (e7) and was considering upgrading to an Aune T1 (tube DAC) or a Schiit Modi... do you think there is value in moving up?

i am considering building a dedicated audio PC, i will have to look into windows server

Upgrading a component is a tricky proposition. For sure you will get a better source, but will (can?) the rest of your components benefit from that? Also, every component has its own sound. A speaker that accentuates bass may benefit from a DAC that de-emphasizes bass.

What I always say is that if there was one component (DAC for example) that was "the best" at each price point, then that component would capture the market and put all the other manufacturers out of business. That doesn't happen. I would assume that's because each (new) component has its particular strengths and weaknesses that either match or don't match what a particular system needs to sound best. So, to get to best, its a matter of trial and error. That being said, there are sure a lot of people that like the DACs you mentioned.

As for Windows Server, I and a lot of others think its the best OS for audio.
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post #49 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post

@ TwoCables:

Does Winamp us a digital volume control? I believe it does and it sounds to me (IMHO) that you are doing the exact opposite of what you should do.

 

I have no idea. You're asking the wrong guy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post

Run your windows volume at 100%

 

No. That would be physically quite inconvenient unless I move my right speaker about a foot closer to me. Then, I'd have one speaker being in my way on a part of the desk that I use. So, no. lol

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post

Run your Winamp volume and speakers at comfortable volumes. in respect to the music. (if you wanted to run your speaker volume full bore - the equivalent of turning up your gain on a power amp - you can). This means your volume would be controlled by Winamp exclusively. However when you are not in Winamp - everything is getting everything full tilt! Since I run all of my media inside of JRiver all I need is JRiver's digital volume control. I also use WASAPI (or ASIO at times) and I bypass windows Kmixer all together.

 

No, with the way I have everything set up, I use Keypad Minus for Volume Down, Keypad Plus for Volume Up, and Keypad Del for Mute. This is far better than just putting Windows at 100% and then controlling all of my volume with either my speakers or winamp or both. First off, I'm too far away from my volume knob for this to be a comfortable option. Second, there's nothing quite like having my volume control being 2 inches away from my mouse. :)

 

I'm still wondering how to use ASIO. I asked in Post #36 but no one replied.

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post #50 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

No. That would be physically quite inconvenient unless I move my right speaker about a foot closer to me. Then, I'd have one speaker being in my way on a part of the desk that I use. So, no. lol

I'm still wondering how to use ASIO. I asked in Post #36 but no one replied.

So you're perfectly willing to trade convenience for sound quality. You're that kind of guy?
Loose that urge!

ASIO: Go here for a start. Don't use ASIO4All.
Edited by billbartuska - 4/15/14 at 9:11am
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