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What's the point of an APU for a gaming build? - Page 3

post #21 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

A $45 board for an i3 is garbage. Somehow magically, for next to nothing, you get a "good" board for an Intel processor? Doesn't work that way.

microcenter combos are amazing
$30 off a mobo when you get any 1150 cpu (talk to a sales rep and show them the ad, regular price is $70, cpu/mobo combo = -$30)
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/8da5c72f#/8da5c72f/33

ASUS H81M-PLUS $40 with a g3220 $50 = $90 combo
http://www.microcenter.com/product/420099/H81M-PLUS_LGA_1150_mATX_Intel_Motherobard
http://www.microcenter.com/product/419425/Pentium_G3220_30GHz_LGA_1150_Boxed_Processor
post #22 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffejrxx View Post

microcenter combos are amazing
$30 off a mobo when you get any 1150 cpu (talk to a sales rep and show them the ad, regular price is $70, cpu/mobo combo = -$30)
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/8da5c72f#/8da5c72f/33

ASUS H81M-PLUS $40 with a g3220 $50 = $90 combo
http://www.microcenter.com/product/420099/H81M-PLUS_LGA_1150_mATX_Intel_Motherobard
http://www.microcenter.com/product/419425/Pentium_G3220_30GHz_LGA_1150_Boxed_Processor

I live near the Yonkers, NY Microcenter. Most people don't have access to one. I find they try to bundle crap motherboards with expensive cpu's.
post #23 of 38
with the amd bundles they put 700 series board with the 6000 cpus

putting a fx cpu in a 700 series board will slow it down, or if its weaker vrm setup, it will throttle too


but with intel 1150, any 8x board is fine
at stock speeds with a single gpu, a h81 board will do just as good as a z87

the only difference is features, more pci/pci-e slots, ram slots
sata 2/3 controllers, usb 2/3 controllers, and z87 if you want to overclock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1150
post #24 of 38
Powering an 80W intel chip with the 2-3 phase power on those sub-$50 H81 boards is just as bad as powering a 95-125W AMD CPU with those 4+1 phase 700 series jobs you get in that same price class. You'll run into the same emachine/junker/throttling/laptop-like performance problems on cheapo motherboards no matter what platform it is.
     
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post #25 of 38
Trick question. There isn't one.

Even AMD's own Athlon II X4 760K + r7 250X is the same price or cheaper and performs better on the GPU side.

I know I am going to be told "HSA", but HSA right now to us consumers hasn't substantiated. I dont know about you guys, but I don't buy based on promises. Remember how Bulldozer was supposed to be faster than Intel? Remember how we were told that AM3+ was going to get an upgrade past Piledriver?
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post #26 of 38
ya, but were talking about teh cheaper cel/pent g and i3, which are around 50-60w not the i5-i7 70-85w

the intel vrms are on the cpu die, the ones on the board dont do much
post #27 of 38
For me, The reason to go APU is the size of it.
Can fit it in a small media center case or even a xbox 360 case (something im doing).
post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffejrxx View Post

the intel vrms are on the cpu die, the ones on the board dont do much

The only thing on the die is the controller for the VRMs. The MOSFETS that handle the heavy lifting of dropping that 12V rail to the ~1.3V for the CPU are still on the motherboard where they have always been. There is no getting around the efficiency characteristics of such a low voltage, high current load.

Here's a $125 motherboard that is limited to 65W operation due to VRM limitations:
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C220/X10SLL-SF.cfm

Compare that to this board:
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C220/X10SLL-F.cfm

Can you spot the difference that lifts the TDP limit and allows the second board to run 84W chips?

SuperMicro knows, that a 2 phase VRM for the CPU, even with the VERY HIGH QUALITY PCB and MOSFETS they are using, can't handle the 80W chips over the long haul. So when someone sells you a $45 board with a similarly sized VRM setup with much cheaper parts, do you believe that it runs 80W chips without a problem? Do you believe it is even good for 50W over the long haul? Where is the limit really? 30W?
I'll leave that testing up to the warranty department over at emachine. Buying a $45 H81 board is pointless for numerous reasons, regardless of whether it can magically handle running the load of the 30-50W pentium/i3 or not. (I would not be surprised if it ran into problems even doing that).

I want to point out, that on the 2 and 3 phase power of the SuperMicro boards, they are using the same sort of ultra-low resistance mosfets found on expensive Z87 ITX overclocking boards. $45 motherboards don't come with that sort of stuff, a 2-3 phase power supply on a $45 motherboard uses the cheapest mosfets they can get their hands on that will work "in theory."
Edited by mdocod - 4/19/14 at 8:37pm
     
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post #29 of 38
20-30w per phase isnt that big of a stretch

thats about on par for amd boards that are 4+1 and rated at 125-140w

3 phase should be good for around 60-90w

alot of the fm2 boards are 3+1 and rated at 100w
post #30 of 38
There's a reason nobody recommends non-heatsunk 4+1 phase boards for AM3/+ builds (they are known to catch fire and/or cause performance throttling to prevent damage to themselves), or non-heatsunk 3+1 boards for FM2 builds. It doesn't matter what they are "rated" at. Those ratings are effectively "peak" ratings that can not be sustained indefinitely on those boards without throttling or damage. This is pretty common knowledge here on OCN.

http://www.overclock.net/a/database-of-motherboard-vrm-failure-incidents

Look at all those VRM failures on cheap 3+1 and 4+1 phase motherboards powering 95-140W chips (notice how many failures recorded at STOCK speeds). No thanks.

The reality is that, the under-sized VRM designs that DON'T suffer the sort of damage seen in many of those incidents reported there, are able to avoid damage through thermal protection measures (forced CPU throttling). This has become a COMMON feature on motherboards now. Almost all motherboards now have some form of temperature sensor near the VRMs (sometimes socket temp is used) that will force throttling to prevent burning out the fets.

Sure, a 2-3 phase design with no added heatsinking (besides the PCB) with cheap parts can do 80W, but for how long before it overheats or throttles?
     
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