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What's the point of an APU for a gaming build? - Page 4

post #31 of 38
i know about vrm throttling and failures
many failures are due to msi and their driver-mosfets, and lack of thermal protection
most good boards will throttle when the vrms get too hot
but thast less of an issue wtih intels lower power cpus

2phase is too weak for most cpus, unless its a extreme low power/budget build /w cel g

if doing an i5/7 build you will be better off with a better board, offering more power phases, sata3/usb3 and pci lanes for cards
post #32 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

A10-7850K: $185
2x4GB of DDR3-2400 CAS 10 (since the APU needs as much RAM bandwith as it can get to perform decently): $80
No discrete GPU

Total: $265


Core i3-4330: $125
2x4GB of DDR3-1600: $60
AMD R7 250: $80

Total: $265


Athlon 760K: $85
2x4GB DDR3-1600: $60
Radeon R7 260X: $120

Total: $265


Going with the i3 gives better CPU performance and better GPU performance compared to the 7850K, with the same total cost.

Going with the 760K and 260X sacrifices a little bit of CPU performance, but with significantly better GPU performance compared to the 7850K. Again, same total cost.

So what's the point of an APU for a gaming build?

Well luckily, the A10-7850K is not the only APU on the market, and just because it might not make sense (based on its current price) does not invalidate the uses of all APUs for gaming.  In my opinion, an APU is meant for a casual gaming build (such as what I use mine for with a $60 dollar a6-5400k) in which the builder does not care about playing the latest games on the highest settings (yes, a computer can still be considered a gaming build if you play older or less graphically intensive games on it).

 

I basically built an APU rig to play casually when I had time, as well as to stay as minimal as possible (less parts usually means less things that can break).  Not to mention it does all the normal tasks I need it to do.  An APU build is not right for every gamer, nor every situation, and as you pointed out there are better alternatives to an A10-7850k (unless you are jumping on board with HSA, hoping for it to take off soon).

 

I think it is a little close minded to bring into question the relevancy of an APU gaming build based solely on the A10-7850k (which is overpriced).

post #33 of 38
mdocod I do know cheap mobos are a bad idea. however I did not find a H81 motherboard in that list. I do know someone who paired a 4670 with a MSI H81 P33 and a 7870 and he has been using that config for a few months now without issue. I even ran prime and IBT on it to see if it would throttle and it runs fine.

Maybe it won last long but Its been about 4 months and he games on it a lot.
Edited by Wirerat - 4/19/14 at 10:43pm
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post #34 of 38
There are also lots of diablotek and Apevia and HEC power supplies out there "working" for people. I guess that means they are fine.


It just doesn't make sense to me, to use that stuff in a custom build. There's always going to be a pre-built out there that costs less and comes with a warranty that covers the entire build when we get down into that sort of $40 motherboards and $20 PSUs stuff... Yea, they work, for awhile.
Edited by mdocod - 4/19/14 at 10:58pm
     
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post #35 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

There are also lots of diablotek and Apevia and HEC power supplies out there "working" for people. I guess that means they are fine.


It just doesn't make sense to me, to use that stuff in a custom build. There's always going to be a pre-built out there that costs less and comes with a warranty that covers the entire build when we get down into that sort of $40 motherboards and $20 PSUs stuff... Yea, they work, for awhile.

I just think the haswell cpu are not that power hungry at stock clocks. I really think the weaker VRMs can work with them at stock.




It doesnt take a super powerful VRM to deliver and average of 97 watts.

But I stil wouldnt use such a cheap board on my $200 investment. I just think it most likley wont melt down like pairing a 8350 with a 4-1 vrm.
Edited by Wirerat - 4/19/14 at 11:22pm
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post #36 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

It doesnt take a super powerful VRM to deliver and average of 97 watts.

An i5-4670 runs ~60 amps. Yea, "only" ~60 amps. That's easy right?

Delivering 500W can be done with 1 tiny MOSFET (120V@4.16A, easy. That's how they make SSRs). Wattage is not the issue here. CPUs are high current devices.

20amps per phase is serious power levels. Many overclocking boards are designed to hit peak efficiency at ~10-15A per phase with overclocked power levels, and this is WITH heatsinking, etc.

Pulling 20 amps per phase, is the sort of power we're pulling when we overclock an FX-8350 to the moon (5ghz+) on an 8+2 phase board. In other-words, an H81 board with 3 phase power running an i5, is running just as hot (if not hotter, since it has no HSF and is likely made from lesser quality components) as the HEAVILY overclocked PileDriver machine. Choosing to run the snot out of a machine is one thing, buying a motherboard that runs the snot out of itself just to run at "stock" settings, is problematic IMO. I'll pass.
     
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post #37 of 38
to overclock an i5k/i7k, you need a z87 board, most are 4+ phases with heatsinks

i havent seen any problems with intel boards vrm thermal throttling
Edited by ffejrxx - 4/20/14 at 6:25am
post #38 of 38
The i5 is ~60amps at stock clocks. That's 20A per phase on an H81 3-phase board, ~double what good motherboards ask of their VRMs.

Look at the specification sheets for the high side mosfets used on those cheap boards. When mounted as they are on these boards (clustered, not spaced), they are rated up to ~15A (average continuous) per MOSFET with 25C ambient temps. There are 6 high-side mosfets in these 3 phase designs. That's only ~90A maximum theoretical IF ambient around the board and mosfet package are at 25C or lower. Obviously, the temperature of the air around the board is unlikely to be that low under real conditions. Throw in a dust load and realistic 50C ambient temp inside a computer case and 60A (total) will put the MOSFETS right at their maximum junction junction temp ratings (or beyond).

That's the same sort of margins we see in cheap HEC/Apevia PSUs. Tear open any good PSU and you'll find components that under ideal mounting and ambient conditions could be a 1000W PSU, but reputable brands sell it as a 500W PSU instead. because they know that the ideal conditions required to achieve 1000W output won't exist in the real world.

The VRM design on most 3-phase H81 boards, if implemented in a way that met all of the "ideal" conditions required, could actually deliver 160+W to a CPU. (~120A). But those ideal conditions are not in play.
Edited by mdocod - 4/20/14 at 5:32pm
     
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