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High performance radiator. What's the BEST out there? - Page 11

post #101 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashuiegi View Post

yeah but this graph assume all power used goes to heat which in not true at all with the moving impeller , a little part of this power become heat and this part should not change that much with the flow.

Second thing the more restriction you add the more outlet pressure you get , i think you read this graph the wrong way , the more restriction the higher you are on this graph , it s not flow against power it s pressure against power.
look the very high restriction loop line is higher in pressure then the low one ,....

third the increase in power when lowering rpm is due to the circuits that reduce/regulate voltage or amps , it s inefficient so it use more power when not at full speed , but this heat is dump on the pcb and electrical part of the pump , very little of this heat will end up in the loop.

It s more the case on the D5 because instead of pwm it use a simple pot to regulate which is very inefficient. that s the main avantage of pwm actually is that you don't pull the full power from the plug all the time , that 's why pwm fan controller are better and it s a technic that is used more and more in industries and bigger machines too.

So incorrect its scary.....

The D5 dumps pretty much all its excess heat into the loop via the cup the rotor sits in.

DDC's are known to get hot in low restriction,high flow loops,this has been observed in the wild so often that the multitude of heatsinks available are warranted,its the only pump that has this overheating characteristic. This only applies to the 18w and PWM models,the 10w is a different story,a solid little pump.

D5's on the other hand do not need any cooling,they dont even need airflow around them.
Edited by B NEGATIVE - 4/18/14 at 2:20pm
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post #102 of 127
Okay.
Just one little correction here.
The D5 Vario doesn't appear to use a pot to regulate speed.

I don't know what it uses, but it's not a pot.

When lowering voltage to the pump, it won't start, or even spin at any voltage below7V.
At 7V, the pump runs 2500 rpm, mine anyway.
But using the pump's control can lower the speed down to around 1800 rpm, lower than voltage control.
If it did use voltage to control itself, it would not be able to go below 2500 rpm.

Furthermore, if a pot was used for a 25W pump, a heatsink would be required to dissipate heat generated. But there are no visible heat sinks inside the D5
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post #103 of 127
Here's the pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by madcratebuilder View Post

Those are well made fans but the blade spacing looks like they are low static pressure fans. I do not see a SP spec on the spec sheet, great case fan, not sure about a rad fan. I'll spend the extra $3 and get F12's

I have 4 Noctua F12s and they guarantee much worse results. I wouldn't buy the Sanyo fans only for the looks, ok well the first two yes, then I bought 5 more after improved CPU/radiator thermals over the Noctuas.

Ok granted, I've only tested the Sanyos and the NF-F12s on an H100i, but that's all about to change.


Stay tuned to see what the Little Custom AIO can do. smile.gif



I have Sanyos and Noctuas and Silverstones and Cooler Masters and even 4 Corsair fans to work with. thumb.gif
    
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post #104 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE View Post

So incorrect its scary.....

The D5 dumps pretty much all its excess heat into the loop via the cup the rotor sits in.

DDC's are known to get hot in low restriction,high flow loops,this has been observed in the wild so often that the multitude of heatsinks available are warranted,its the only pump that has this overheating characteristic. This only applies to the 18w and PWM models,the 10V is a different story,a solid little pump.

D5's on the other hand do not need any cooling,they dont even need airflow around them.

My understanding is that both the D5 and DDC have about the same amount of efficiency. So they both produce pretty much the same heat output.
The difference is that the DDC will throw most of it's heat in the air, and the D5 will throw most of it's heat into the water.

And I beleive they both produce more heat when restriction is lower. When adding restriction in my loop with a ball valve, it causes the D5 to jump from 4600 rpm to 4900 rpm. Now how can a pump run cooler when spinning faster, and pushing against more restriction?

I don't understand this. But I remember Martin telling me about it. I'll look it up and repost it here.

And yeah. I agree that the D5 doesn't use a pot to control speed. And that it will dump more of it's heat into the water due mostly to the metsl wetted parts acting as a water sink for the pump. The DDC is all plastic, so it dumps more of it's heat into the air.
Edited by PepeLapiu - 4/18/14 at 3:28pm
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post #105 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanBruce View Post

Here's the pdf
I have 4 Noctua F12s and they guarantee much worse results. I wouldn't buy the Sanyo fans only for the looks, ok well the first two yes, then I bought 5 more after improved CPU/radiator thermals over the Noctuas.

Ok granted, I've only tested the Sanyos and the NF-F12s on an H100i, but that's all about to change.


Stay tuned to see what the Little Custom AIO can do. smile.gif



I have Sanyos and Noctuas and Silverstones and Cooler Masters and even 4 Corsair fans to work with. thumb.gif

The Noc F12's are not a good choice for the100i rad. The 100i's 15mm core with 24 fpi needs a fan with a lot more rpm. The 100i fans are double the rpm of the Noc f12. My biggest complaint with the 100i was the fans needed to be in leaf blower mode to cool when loaded hard.
post #106 of 127
There, found it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post

D5 pumps differ from DDC in regard to their impeller casing material. D5s have a metal case which transfers heat from the stator and electronics to the water so they don't really get hot. Also the D5 is more of a high flow low pressure oriented pump so it is not driving very hard even at 2gpm levels. The DDC uses a plastic casing which insulates the electronics from the water. In addition DDC pumps are more pressure oriented with a lower max flow rate. This makes DDC pump to drive more toward the max flow rate which is where maximum current occurs. Also the DDC pump electronics are cramped and when sitting on it's base have a hard time dissipating heat build up. Last but not least, the DDC1 was a lowere watt pump, the DDC2 and later generation 18W models did't come in until later. I have always wondered if they were really meant to only be those lower wattage and the 18w model is really just a modifed version and perhaps pushing thermal limits a bit.

All pumps dump most of their heat into the water, probably 60-80% of the power consumed is dumped, the difference is how hot the electronics get which doesn't translate at all to how much is pit into the water.

Heat in DDC pumps is highly dependant on resulting flow rate and restriction. A highly restrictive loop (1GPM) will run much cooler than something low in restriction with high flow rate (2+GPM).
tempvsflowrate2.png
Personally, I would at least make sure you have good moving air blowing under the base on all DDC installs if you plan to run full speed all the time. With a 35x if you throttle down regularly, you can probably do without. D5 no worries on heat. heatsink on DDC always a good thing, probably not necessary, but cooler electronics and less heat dumping into the loop is always a benefit.

DDC pumps are also a bit more efficient with a top.
35xefficiency.jpg
So a combination of efficiency and casing materials means DDC pumps have less heat dump (into the water) for the same amount of pumping power.

At like speeds D5 is a little quieter:
pnr1-b-comparisondecoupled.png
Both good pumps though..each with their own benefits.
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post #107 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by madcratebuilder View Post

The Noc F12's are not a good choice for the100i rad. The 100i's 15mm core with 24 fpi needs a fan with a lot more rpm. The 100i fans are double the rpm of the Noc f12. My biggest complaint with the 100i was the fans needed to be in leaf blower mode to cool when loaded hard.
Unless you have room for push+pull. Then you don't need as high of an rpm to get the same performance as a single set of fans.

If the radiator FPI and stock fan of the H100 is anything is like the H55 I used to have, the stock fan wasn't exactly the best. I switched it out with a single Gentle Typhoon 2150 RPM in push and there was a fairly good performance increase. Temps dropped about 5C on load.
post #108 of 127
The D5 does use a pot to control speed its just that its not the simplest, inline Rheostat, resistance based voltage dropping design and implementation.
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post #109 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

The D5 does use a pot to control speed its just that its not the simplest, inline Rheostat, resistance based voltage dropping design and implementation.

Okay, you loose me completely there with your more that 4 letter words.
Wouldn't that mean that the voltage is burned away like in a pot, to reduce voltage?

And if the Vario indeed uses voltage reduction to control itself, why is it it can lower down to 1700 rpm bit when external voltage rreduction via CW611 can only lower rpm down to 2500 rpm?
Edited by PepeLapiu - 4/19/14 at 9:41am
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post #110 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

Okay, you loose me completely there with your more that 4 letter words.
Wouldn't that mean that the voltage is burned away like in a pot, to reduce voltage?

No, not at all. The pot is not just plonked on the 12V power. It is just a setting device for more complex speed control.
Instead of the 2A current of the pump it is only exposed to milliamps. That is why Aquacomputer could replace it with a digital version in the USB D5.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 4/19/14 at 9:38am
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