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High performance radiator. What's the BEST out there? - Page 6

post #51 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE View Post


The HWL rads where/are my favorite,clean,well made and great performers.

Which is a shame since they need to send there new nemesis out for people to review. It kind of annoys me how many of the other companies leave flux residue inside there units.
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post #52 of 127
I'm inclined to agree with B Neg here. Pepe, you are making claims and referencing testing you have have done, but have posted no results, or even proof that you actually have tested at all. Just because Bundy's results differ from Martin's and your supposed results doesn't mean he is wrong., he just uses different methods. When I asked Martin if he was going to do a review of the new XSPC V3 and HWL Nemesis rads, he pointed me toward Bundy, so it seems even Martin trusts Bundy's testing.
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post #53 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by morencyam View Post

I'm inclined to agree with B Neg here. Pepe, you are making claims and referencing testing you have have done, but have posted no results, or even proof that you actually have tested at all. Just because Bundy's results differ from Martin's and your supposed results doesn't mean he is wrong., he just uses different methods. When I asked Martin if he was going to do a review of the new XSPC V3 and HWL Nemesis rads, he pointed me toward Bundy, so it seems even Martin trusts Bundy's testing.

Exactly.
Some people are fixated upon Martin as some sort of watercooling bible,the reality is that Martin is an enthusiast. Not some sort of watercooling lab tech.
Before theb'You hate Martin' responses,I have nothing but respect for him,im not going to base everything off what he says tho. More frames of reference are required for objective analysis.
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post #54 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

In the real world, the XT45 would have twice the pressure drop of Monsta.
In Bundy world, it's the Monsta that somehow becomes more restrictive.

This is the kind of error that real world data collection will accumulate.

I want to know what kind of temp sensor Bundy used. Because over time, the tempsistors shipped with your fan controller can degrade. The flow sensors can also obviously degrade. So can pumps. And so can enviromental variables.

In the real world, there are just so many variables that will throw off a test. Now a careful tester can isulate and eliminate many of those variables. But since the data is all over the map and shown to be innacurate, Bundy obviously didn't isulate enough of those variables.

When you actually read the test data produced by Bundy, you realize there are too many inconsistancies all over the map. The flow test results for my 4 Alphacool rads was just a sample of this. More can be found.

Bundy might very well be an experienced water cooler, a nice guy with good intentions, but his tests are not even remotely accurate.

Cheers cheers.gif

AQ uses the standard 10Kohm thermistors. What's unique is AQ allows you to use offsets to make adjustments in increments of 0.01C. They may degrade over time, but years not during the test procedure. I've tested over 2 dozen of these sensors and never seen more that 1C difference in readings. These are used in a very narrow temperature range, most would see 22-23C as a minimum temp and I've never had h2o over 34C and hard parts never over 45C. They always seem to return to the same ambient reading. They just measure resistance change as temp changes, reading I experience always are within .1-.5C, even 1C would be within the margin of error that's generally excepted in the community.

The AQ MPS flow meters use a hall effect sensor that is very unlikely to degrade and it also has the available offsets.

Quote:
Some people are fixated upon Martin as some sort of watercooling bible,the reality is that Martin is an enthusiast. Not some sort of watercooling lab tech.
Before theb'You hate Martin' responses,I have nothing but respect for him,im not going to base everything off what he says tho. More frames of reference are required for objective analysis.

+100
Edited by madcratebuilder - 4/16/14 at 9:04am
post #55 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by madcratebuilder View Post

AQ uses the standard 10Kohm thermistors. What's unique is AQ allows you to use offsets to make adjustments in increments of 0.01C. They may degrade over time, but years not during the test procedure. I've tested over 2 dozen of these sensors and never seen more that 1C difference in readings. These are used in a very narrow temperature range, most would see 22-23C as a minimum temp and I've never had h2o over 34C and hard parts never over 45C. They always seem to return to the same ambient reading. They just measure resistance change as temp changes, reading I experience always are within .1-.5C, even 1C would be within the margin of error that's generally excepted in the community.

The AQ MPS flow meters use a hall effect sensor that is very unlikely to degrade and it also has the available offsets.
+100

I am nit going.to take apart Bundy's testing equipment and procedure because his explaning of his method and tools is a single paragraph long.
While B NEG wants to beleive those are reliable time honnored recognized testing methods and tools, I would rather analyze the resulting data.
Because I would need a crystal ball to make any judgement on a methodolgy which is not known to me.

Fact is, the XT45 is more restrictive than both tbe UT60 and Monsta.
There is no way around that conclusion. It has the same flat tube design at the Monsta and UT. But is has fewer tubes due to it's thinner size.

This simple fact is also corroborated by Martin's testing.

Not only is it a logical conclusion, and a logical conclusion supported by Martin's testing. But it is also in line with my personal, non-scientific, for fun testing.

But Bundy has the XT45 running with less restriction than both the Monsta and UT60.
I don't really care how good the MPS sensor and Aquaero ate. Something in his testing is obviously wrong to have the XT45 come out ahead of both the Monsta and UT60.

This very obvious flaw in his testing shows clearly that either his methofs, or tools, or both are not accurate.

It's easier to drink your coke with 2 straws than it is to drink it with one straw.

Or do I need to perform a test to demonstrate this for you guys?

And I am sorry, but I tested my XT45 and my UT60 for flow. But I didn't record the results, as I didn't think I'd be called on it. My testing was done for fun over my kitchen sink.
Not scientific one bit, but never the less corroborated by both simple logic, and Martin's tests.
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post #56 of 127
Why isn't anyone other than pepe concerned about the contradicting flow rate data between the UT60 and the more restrictive XT45. Something most be off in bundy's testing procedure or equipment that has given results that are polar opposite. Is there anyway someone can contact bundy and ask him to look into this matter?
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post #57 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE View Post

Exactly.
Some people are fixated upon Martin as some sort of watercooling bible,the reality is that Martin is an enthusiast. Not some sort of watercooling lab tech.
Before theb'You hate Martin' responses,I have nothing but respect for him,im not going to base everything off what he says tho. More frames of reference are required for objective analysis.

Firstly, your crystal ball is again cracked in telling you that i see Martin's tests as some sort of bible. You are errecting a strawman tio debate against.

Secondly, yes, more frames of reference would be welcomed.
But we need accurate results to compare and debate.
Not third rate illogical, innacurate testing results offered up without a testing methodolgy explained.

Go try it yourself. See which one offers the most restriction. The UT60, or the XT45.
But you are severely crippled if you need to perform your own tests to understand basic logic.
The UT60 can not possibly be more restrictive than the XT45.

But that's what Bundy's tests are telling you....and what your crystal ball is also telling you.
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post #58 of 127
The best?

Well that has to be one of the monster ones. Either Nova 1200 or MoRa. Although you will run at some point into diminishing returns ofc (having to double the rad space to go from 5C water delta to 2.5C water delta, for example). And if price and space is not an objection what is better than one monster rad - ofc TWO monster rads wink.gif If you are going with just one then any case can fit it (other than some ITX ones perhaps)


That is btw Nova 1080 - not the best - but it's good bang for buck.
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post #59 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightingale View Post

Why isn't anyone other than pepe concerned about the contradicting flow rate data between the UT60 and the more restrictive XT45. Something most be off in bundy's testing procedure or equipment that has given results that are polar opposite. Is there anyway someone can contact bundy and ask him to look into this matter?

They are not concerned with the contradicting flow rates because it would force them to admit they might be wrong and admit someone else is right.
So they prefer to make broad statements like "Martin's fanboi" or "Show me your tests"

"An error does not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it"
- JFK
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post #60 of 127
Dear God,you can only volumetrically flow as much as your narrowest restriction,which is the fitting ports,not the tube runs. No Rad is restrictive in any way shape or form,the cross section of the tubes in the rad equate to a larger bore than the fitting. The moment you add a CPU block (by far the most restrictive part of a loop) into the mix then the rad can be considered nothing more than tubing in regards to restriction.

7 LPH variance is nothing,the could be manufacturing defects inside the rad,solder blockages....not every rad is identical,even if it came one after another on the production line.

Quote:
It's easier to drink your coke with 2 straws than it is to drink it with one straw.


Until both straws join to become one straw at each end.....like it does in a rad when it meets the fittings....rolleyes.gif


EDIT: still waiting for these 'test' results....
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE View Post

Exactly.
Some people are fixated upon Martin as some sort of watercooling bible,the reality is that Martin is an enthusiast. Not some sort of watercooling lab tech.
Before theb'You hate Martin' responses,I have nothing but respect for him,im not going to base everything off what he says tho. More frames of reference are required for objective analysis.

Firstly, your crystal ball is again cracked in telling you that i see Martin's tests as some sort of bible. You are errecting a strawman tio debate against.

Secondly, yes, more frames of reference would be welcomed.
But we need accurate results to compare and debate.
Not third rate illogical, innacurate testing results offered up without a testing methodolgy explained.

Go try it yourself. See which one offers the most restriction. The UT60, or the XT45.
But you are severely crippled if you need to perform your own tests to understand basic logic.
The UT60 can not possibly be more restrictive than the XT45.

But that's what Bundy's tests are telling you....and what your crystal ball is also telling you.

Bundy uses a test rig,setup permanently,monitored by an Aquaero. You have already been told by users that the Aquaero is accurate but you seem to ignore that as it suits you. Illogical testing? No,Bundy has done what watercooling testers have done for years ,setup a rig,leave it at a locked set of settings and run the same test over various parts. Nothing magical about that at all.
All you have done so far is try to rubbish Bundy's tests. Even tho Martin also recommends Bundy for rad tests......
You quote Martin so often that,frankly,its easy to say you are fixated and lack any actual RL experience,We have not even seen this test rig of yours....or any rig tbh. All you have is secondhand paper knowledge.
Edited by B NEGATIVE - 4/16/14 at 10:46am
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