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High performance radiator. What's the BEST out there? - Page 9

post #81 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashuiegi View Post

you compare rad fans with the noctua fan for moving air ? doesn't make any sens ,.....
The Noctua fan was used as an example of the difference in blade shape and spacing between fans made for radiators and fans made for just moving air.
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post #82 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashuiegi View Post

no they dump far more heat then the cpu that's the point, bigger rad = more liquid = lower max water temp

Coolant volume does not effect max temps, it effects the time it takes to reach max temp.


Quote:
Who knows, maybe he runs a watercooling loop with just a pump and radiators like Martin.

Spit coffee on the keyboard!!!
biggrin.gif
Edited by madcratebuilder - 4/17/14 at 6:06am
post #83 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by madcratebuilder View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashuiegi View Post

no they dump far more heat then the cpu that's the point, bigger rad = more liquid = lower max water temp

Coolant volume does not effect max temps, it effects the time it takes to reach max temp.


Quote:
Who knows, maybe he runs a watercooling loop with just a pump and radiators like Martin.

Spit coffee on the keyboard!!!
biggrin.gif

When you get a crazy amount of coolant volume it will help temps...but I think that is because the massive reservoir will have a large surface area with the coolant moving around in side of it. I have a bucket on my rig and the sides of the bucket will warm up...that is a lot of heat getting pulled out. It's plastic so not the best thermal conductor, but I still think it does a fair amount.
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post #84 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by madcratebuilder View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashuiegi View Post

no they dump far more heat then the cpu that's the point, bigger rad = more liquid = lower max water temp

Coolant volume does not effect max temps, it effects the time it takes to reach max temp.


Quote:
Who knows, maybe he runs a watercooling loop with just a pump and radiators like Martin.

Spit coffee on the keyboard!!!
biggrin.gif

When you get a crazy amount of coolant volume it will help temps...but I think that is because the massive reservoir will have a large surface area with the coolant moving around in side of it. I have a bucket on my rig and the sides of the bucket will warm up...that is a lot of heat getting pulled out. It's plastic so not the best thermal conductor, but I still think it does a fair amount.
This is incorrect,the volume of coolant only influences the time it takes for the loop to reach its equalibrium. It has no positive or negative effects on temps overall.
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post #85 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by madcratebuilder View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashuiegi View Post

no they dump far more heat then the cpu that's the point, bigger rad = more liquid = lower max water temp

Coolant volume does not effect max temps, it effects the time it takes to reach max temp.


Quote:
Who knows, maybe he runs a watercooling loop with just a pump and radiators like Martin.

Spit coffee on the keyboard!!!
biggrin.gif

When you get a crazy amount of coolant volume it will help temps...but I think that is because the massive reservoir will have a large surface area with the coolant moving around in side of it. I have a bucket on my rig and the sides of the bucket will warm up...that is a lot of heat getting pulled out. It's plastic so not the best thermal conductor, but I still think it does a fair amount.
This is incorrect,the volume of coolant only influences the time it takes for the loop to reach its equalibrium. It has no positive or negative effects on temps overall.

I didn't say the volume did...I said the massive reservoir acts like an additional radiator. Since adding my bucket to my loop my delta temp has gone down a fair amount...even after running for several hours. The only excuse I can think of is all the heat that is radiating/convecting out of the sides of the bucket. It will be warm to the touch. There is also a fair amount of evaporating going on inside the bucket and it supposedly involves a fairly high energy transfer to evaporate and condense again. I don't know if it is enough to matter in this small of a scale though.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 4/17/14 at 9:07am
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post #86 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

As an actual scientist in a field infinitely more complex than basic water-air heat transfer, I find absolutely zero fault with the testing methodology bundy uses. It seems as though you are demanding results, the accuracy of which is unfeasible for anyone without access to a lab worth more than your house probably ten times over. It would be absolutely insane to devote that amount of time and money to testing something so (realistically speaking) completely worthless.

What we have are a miniscule number of devoted enthusiasts who dedicate tremendous time and money not for their own benefit, but for the benefit of the community as a whole. The "big 3" all deserve respect, because instead of joining the millions of whiners and occasional indignant and stubborn "enthusiasts" who bicker over hypotheticals with a minimum of actual experience, they ARE the reason for water cooler no longer being seen as a fringe, "magic" phenomenon.

When talking about testing something so simple and with such an incredibly miniscule number of variables, the methodology itself is of little consequence.

The only thing that matters, is that the testing is performed under identical circumstances using identical, controllable setups.

The only thing that is of any importance is the CONSISTENCY of results, and IT DOESN'T MATTER if he's using an Aquasuite or a $30k junior lab setup, so long as the variance (delta) across the compared radiators remains the same consistenly, then tthe data is absolutely accurate for the purpose for which it was gathered.


It's very easy to criticize from the outside looking in, especially when a number of those criticisms are already based in a flawed understanding of the basic nature of the science behind what's being tested..
I don't know how old you are or what you do for a living, but from the posts above, I get a sense of "taken a required physics and Chem class, once"... It's like the first yearpsych sstudentswho tthink they have some incredible understanding of the human mind, and actively fail to realize that they're not the smartest person in the room, and that they have only barely skimmed the subject.
I am not saying that in a mean hearted way, I am simply making an observation.


If you really feel that the testing is useless, and if you have as much experience as you allege, then you need to be conducting a battery of tests with video/photo evidence of the active test procedure, be able to repeat the tests with identical results a month after you do the first round (if they don't match, you can toss the data, or continue to find the ultimate test methodology by putting hundreds more hours minimum into the tests), and do so for each of the rads that bundy has tested. Oh, and you will need an unimpeachable, well respected, and one hundred percent impartial witness, keeping a separate log that you can never under any circumstances see, to ensure that your biases are not influencing results.

Until then, as a heavily specialized Behavioral Psychobiological Neuro chemist (psychopharmacologist), I am willing to say that I after spending the immense time and dedication over the better part of a decade learning, I base my opinion on this experience, and that is that the testing is flawless because it provided exactly the data needed, and was performed in a manner that negates almost all possible inconsistent sets.

This is comparison testing, which is tedious but not difficult; it is not nor is it presented as being an absolute measure of performance, ONLY the performance delta between various models.

If it is so crazy to point out there might be some flaws or inaccuracy in Bundys testing then it should be hard to find anything contradictory right?


The very nature of external testing introduces error simply because larger rads have a larger surface area exposed to passive cooling. Add to that the large gaps in time between tests.

Just as an example;

The Bundy testing has the Monsta rad working best at 1200 and 1500 RPM

The Testing done by GliderHR, with more sensitive equipment and a steady heat source
http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f137/kuehlleistungsvergleich-von-radiatoren-und-verwendeten-lueftern-mit-durchflussheizern-971299.html#post20956104
Has the UT60 outperforming or equalling the Monsta at all speeds, in push only or push/pull




Bundys testing has the Coolgate Full copper consistently beating the UT60
GliderHR records the opposite



Bundy has the Watercool HTSF2 starting off well at lower speeds and then dropping off markedly at higher speeds compared to the Coolgate Copper and UT60
GliderHR has the UT60 consistently better than both



Bundy has the Watercool HTSF2 and Aquacomp AMS trading places with the HTSF2 better at low speed and AMS better at higher speed
GliderHR has the HTSF2 consistently better


That doesn't seem so simple or absolutely accurate.
I'm sure anyone who has done any testing themselves would be the last to blindly defend it. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value of course.
Insisting that someone present their own testing before daring to question another set is just silly.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 4/17/14 at 9:27am
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post #87 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by madcratebuilder View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashuiegi View Post

no they dump far more heat then the cpu that's the point, bigger rad = more liquid = lower max water temp

Coolant volume does not effect max temps, it effects the time it takes to reach max temp.


Quote:
Who knows, maybe he runs a watercooling loop with just a pump and radiators like Martin.

Spit coffee on the keyboard!!!
biggrin.gif

When you get a crazy amount of coolant volume it will help temps...but I think that is because the massive reservoir will have a large surface area with the coolant moving around in side of it. I have a bucket on my rig and the sides of the bucket will warm up...that is a lot of heat getting pulled out. It's plastic so not the best thermal conductor, but I still think it does a fair amount.
This is incorrect,the volume of coolant only influences the time it takes for the loop to reach its equalibrium. It has no positive or negative effects on temps overall.

I didn't say the volume did...I said the massive reservoir acts like an additional radiator. Since adding my bucket to my loop my delta temp has gone down a fair amount...even after running for several hours. The only excuse I can think of is all the heat that is radiating/convecting out of the sides of the bucket. It will be warm to the touch. There is also a fair amount of evaporating going on inside the bucket and it supposedly involves a fairly high energy transfer to evaporate and condense again. I don't know if it is enough to matter in this small of a scale though.

You kind of did.....

Agreed on very large bodies of water acting as radiators,this is correct. However,having a bucket by the desk is not usual practice,certainly not something I would consider normal use nor practical.
Perhaps I should of put that caveat in....


Jackson,its gets worse...

http://www.hardwaremax.net/wasserkuehlung/radiatoren/875-test-alphacool-nexxxos-radiatorenreie.html?showall=&start=6

fvJU3ly.png

ST goes from first to last to first.....
Edited by B NEGATIVE - 4/17/14 at 10:04am
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post #88 of 127
In theory, yeah, a 45 gallon drum next to my desk will help cooling, especially if the drum is made of metal.
The heat capacity of the coolant in the drum will also provide for a much slower fluctuation of water temp.

So yeah, I can see how a large drum reservoir can help cooling.

But it's neither practical, nor easthetic, nor efficient.
Ten 1080 rads at 300 rpm would probably occupy less space than the drum, and dissipate a lot more heat.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go buy enough X1 to fill my pool.
I think red would go well with the lawn furniture.

Does EK void a warranty if chlorine is used in the coolant?
Edited by PepeLapiu - 4/17/14 at 10:14am
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post #89 of 127
The calibration levels of the measuring equipment may not be the same, certain calibration levels will bring more accuracy and also make test skewed between one another with less stringent calibration. Allot of ocilliscopes and stuff i sell have requested NIST with traceability plus allot of companies have their own internal calibration system so everyone is getting same measuring accuracy.
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post #90 of 127
Heh, well my whole rig is on the other side of the wall in my utility room. I just run the cables through a wall plate. Complete silence by my desk and I can can have ghetto things like buckets in my loop.
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