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post #91 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

In theory, yeah, a 45 gallon drum next to my desk will help cooling, especially if the drum is made of metal.
The heat capacity of the coolant in the drum will also provide for a much slower fluctuation of water temp.

So yeah, I can see how a large drum reservoir can help cooling.

But it's neither practical, nor easthetic, nor efficient.
Ten 1080 rads at 300 rpm would probably occupy less space than the drum, and dissipate a lot more heat.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go buy enough X1 to fill my pool.
I think red would go well with the lawn furniture.

Does EK void a warranty if chlorine is used in the coolant?

lachen.gif

Dont bother with a pool,just make a geoloop.
Edited by B NEGATIVE - 4/17/14 at 11:34am
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post #92 of 127
meant more fluid being cooled in the bigger rad , fluid spend more time passing trough the rad , the best ideal loop possible would be to have only rad,pump and block with no tube , when the water is not traveling inside a block or a rad it waste energy being moved for nothing .
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post #93 of 127
Actually, and this is really weird, more tubing works to reduce the pump heat input into your loop. I know, sounds strange right?

Pumps use more power when running at high flow rates rather than high head loads, and that heat is usually dumped into the loop (especially in the case of the D5). Since the more tubing you have the lower the flow rate, it forces the pump into a more efficient part of its curve, reducing power input. You can ignore residence time in the rad and block, they cancel each other out.

However slowing the flow down also reduces the rate of heat transfer in both the blocks and rad - you want the flow to be high to promote turbulent flow and fluid mixing, up to a point the more the better. In the low flow range this has very much more of an effect on temperatures than pump heat dump, however as you get into the higher flow rates (~2.5GPM and higher) the benefit tails off dramatically.

Obviously this means that there is a point at which a higher flow rate stops being beneficial and starts becoming detrimental to temperatures due to increased pump heat dump. Most of us will never come close to that point, but in simple loops with multiple pumps it is possible.
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post #94 of 127
I'm not sure tubing footage is a significant culprit in pressure drop. Same with rads and reservoirs.
Blocks, GPU in series, elbows, and SLI bridges along with QDC's and flow meters are really what makes a difference in pressure drop.
Edited by PepeLapiu - 4/17/14 at 1:42pm
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post #95 of 127
Warning: offtopic! (Click to show)
why do you still buy expensive fans for good results ex. The rosewill rfx 120bl is as good as the nf f12 and it is cheaper
post #96 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

I'm not sure tubing footage is a significant culprit in pressure drop.

Of course not, not until you get into remote rads and multiple meters of tubing anyway, I was more investigating random thoughts.

There is obviously a balance between flow rate and pump heat dump which has to be struck. I'm trying to find a graph that someone made a while ago - possibly Skinnee but I can't be sure - where they tested this by putting a few pumps into a simple CPU + 1 rad loop and recording temperatures as they cranked the flow rate. Predictably it dropped at first with higher flow rates but then started to rise again after a certain point due to pump heat dump.

I forget what the turning point was, but I know it was pretty darn high.

Edit: Oh, and elbows are not all that restrictive either.
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post #97 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

I'm not sure tubing footage is a significant culprit in pressure drop.

Of course not, not until you get into remote rads and multiple meters of tubing anyway, I was more investigating random thoughts.

There is obviously a balance between flow rate and pump heat dump which has to be struck. I'm trying to find a graph that someone made a while ago - possibly Skinnee but I can't be sure - where they tested this by putting a few pumps into a simple CPU + 1 rad loop and recording temperatures as they cranked the flow rate. Predictably it dropped at first with higher flow rates but then started to rise again after a certain point due to pump heat dump.

I forget what the turning point was, but I know it was pretty darn high.

Edit: Oh, and elbows are not all that restrictive either.

There was time when I ran about 50 feet of tubing...I had a reservoir in my sump hole in the basement...which effectively became a free water chiller since my old house constantly had water coming into the sump...even in a drought my sump pump was going off about once an hour (hence why it is my old house...we moved from that nightmare). I had to run two D5 pumps to maintain a good flow...and I was thinking about a third before I decided that even though the temps were good I didn't like the tubing all over the place and I had a tiny amount of condensation that worried me.
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post #98 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

I'm trying to find a graph that someone made a while ago - possibly Skinnee but I can't be sure - where they tested this by putting a few pumps into a simple CPU + 1 rad loop and recording temperatures as they cranked the flow rate. Predictably it dropped at first with higher flow rates but then started to rise again after a certain point due to pump heat dump.

I forget what the turning point was, but I know it was pretty darn high.

I recall reading something similar. I think it was Martin saying that extreme guys might want to push between 1.5 and 2 gpm. And that there would be decreasing benefits beyond that.

On a side note about pumps dumping more heat at higher flow.
Not saying it's not true, just saying I don't undetstand how reducing restriction will increase pump heat dump. It's probably true, but I don't get it.

Playing around with my pump, I could get a flow of around 3 gpm at pump full speed 4500 rpm in a free flow loop, just the pump and res with 2 flow meters and 2 ft of tubing.
But when I added restriction to slow the flow down to 1 gpm, the pump would turn faster to 4800 rpm.


Now according to you, and/or Martin, and/or Skinnee, the pump dumps more heat when spinning a 4500 rpm in free flow.

How can a pump that works less, against less restriction, at slower RPM, produce more heat?
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post #99 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

How can a pump that works less, against less restriction, at slower RPM, produce more heat?

I've no idea, but it does:

pmp-450-pqvspmp400.png?w=614&h=555
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/04/03/koolance-pmp-450-d5-vario-pump/

35xvs325xspc1.png
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/02/25/swiftech-mcp-35x-reservoir/

Dotted line is the power curve
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post #100 of 127
yeah but this graph assume all power used goes to heat which in not true at all with the moving impeller , a little part of this power become heat and this part should not change that much with the flow.

Second thing the more restriction you add the more outlet pressure you get , i think you read this graph the wrong way , the more restriction the higher you are on this graph , it s not flow against power it s pressure against power.
look the very high restriction loop line is higher in pressure then the low one ,....

third the increase in power when lowering rpm is due to the circuits that reduce/regulate voltage or amps , it s inefficient so it use more power when not at full speed , but this heat is dump on the pcb and electrical part of the pump , very little of this heat will end up in the loop.

It s more the case on the D5 because instead of pwm it use a simple pot to regulate which is very inefficient. that s the main avantage of pwm actually is that you don't pull the full power from the plug all the time , that 's why pwm fan controller are better and it s a technic that is used more and more in industries and bigger machines too.
Edited by Ashuiegi - 4/18/14 at 2:05pm
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