Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Sound Cards and Computer Audio › Pioneer SP-BS41-LR bookshelf speakers
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Pioneer SP-BS41-LR bookshelf speakers - Page 5

post #41 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastMHz View Post

Bigger conductor (smaller awg, it's inverse) = less voltage drop at the speaker. This means more power gets where it needs to be, the voice coils driving the cones.

Thank you. And yeah, I know that 12 is bigger than 16. I'm just wondering if there's a noticeable benefit. So if I understand you correctly, the 12 guage has better conductivity? And all of these bookshelf speakers take any 12-18 guage? I don't see any specs in-terms of compatibility. That's why I ask.

The Monoprice 12AWG o2-free cable is only $25-30 for a 50 ft. roll
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGroove View Post

No benefit.

lol.

I'm getting conflicting reports!

In any case, this setup will be relatively close to the AVR. I don't plan to make the cables longer than 8-10 ft. for each speaker.
Edited by scatlm - 4/17/14 at 2:15pm
post #42 of 54
I use 12AWG because I know that it's more than enough for the runs I make, and I am constantly changing stuff (no joke, it's a big reason Ihad the whole house redone with on-call wiring, to minimize my constant wishy washy-ness).

I would suggest getting banana plugs, because despite being a factual measurement, the thickness of 12AWG cables varies significantly between manufacturers. With binding posts, I have seen 12 that has room to spare and others that wouldn't come close to fitting. Banana plugs remove the variable, and also make it so much easier to move things around. Again monoprice has good ones. It's an inexpensive way to aalleviate future frustration.
   
Z77 Bench-a-lot
(31 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3930K @ 4.92Ghz Asus Rampage 4 Extreme EVGA GTX670 FTW 2GB  EVGA GTX780Ti Classified K|ngp|n Edition @ 1483... 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
EVGA GTX780Ti Classified K|ngp|n Edition @ 1483... 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws-Z @ DDR3-2248 9-10-9-26 1T Samsung 830 256GB SSD WD10EZEX 1TB HDD 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
WD10EALX 1TB HDD Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 1TB WD3200AAKS 320GB HDD WD5000HHTZ 10krpm 500GB VelociRaptor 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
LG/Hitachi Slim DVD-R/W Custom MB-Backside VRM-sinks (Copper) 3x NZXT RF-FX140LB 1-2krpm 98.3CFM Case Fans 2x Corsair SP120-PE Case Fans 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Heatkiller GTX680 "Hole Edition" Block + Backplate XSPC Single-Bay Res (Single 5.25 bay) EK Multioption Res X2 - Advanced 150 DD "Fill-Port Res" + Fill-Port Fitting (Red) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
2x MCP35X + Heatsinks/80x15mm Fan XSPC EX420 Alphacool NeXXos UT60 240 6x Bgears Blasters 140mm 1800rpm Fans 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
4x Koolance 120x25mm 2600rpm Fans Comp/Rotary Fittings (BP/XSPC/Monsoon) Primoflex Pro LRT - White (1/2x3/4) Windows 7 Professional 64bit  
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
Dell P2210Hb 21.5" 1920x1080p Viewsonic VA2012WB 20.1" LCD 1680x1050 Dell U3014 Eizo 27" 1440p 10bit RGB-LED Backlit AH-IPS Panel 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
55" LG HDTV (their top 2014 model) Ducky Mechanical (Browns) NZXT HALE90 850W + 8 blown-up AX1200/i's NZXT Switch 810 (White) 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
R.A.T.3 + MX510 My Desk GRADO RS1i Headphones Grado PS1000 Headphones 
OtherOtherOtherOther
Bitfenix Hydra Pro Fan Controller 5ch 30W/ch Bitfenix Alchemy Individually-Sleeved Extension... NZXT Individually-Sleeved Front Panel Wires (Bl... Phobya Sleeved 1x3pin-to-4x3pin Fan Splitter 
OtherOtherOther
Sleeved Wires w Paracord myself (no Heatshrink) Custom Front and Top Panels w HexxMesh *In Prog... Working on Custom Pedestal Prototype 
  hide details  
Reply
   
Z77 Bench-a-lot
(31 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3930K @ 4.92Ghz Asus Rampage 4 Extreme EVGA GTX670 FTW 2GB  EVGA GTX780Ti Classified K|ngp|n Edition @ 1483... 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
EVGA GTX780Ti Classified K|ngp|n Edition @ 1483... 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws-Z @ DDR3-2248 9-10-9-26 1T Samsung 830 256GB SSD WD10EZEX 1TB HDD 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
WD10EALX 1TB HDD Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 1TB WD3200AAKS 320GB HDD WD5000HHTZ 10krpm 500GB VelociRaptor 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
LG/Hitachi Slim DVD-R/W Custom MB-Backside VRM-sinks (Copper) 3x NZXT RF-FX140LB 1-2krpm 98.3CFM Case Fans 2x Corsair SP120-PE Case Fans 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Heatkiller GTX680 "Hole Edition" Block + Backplate XSPC Single-Bay Res (Single 5.25 bay) EK Multioption Res X2 - Advanced 150 DD "Fill-Port Res" + Fill-Port Fitting (Red) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
2x MCP35X + Heatsinks/80x15mm Fan XSPC EX420 Alphacool NeXXos UT60 240 6x Bgears Blasters 140mm 1800rpm Fans 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
4x Koolance 120x25mm 2600rpm Fans Comp/Rotary Fittings (BP/XSPC/Monsoon) Primoflex Pro LRT - White (1/2x3/4) Windows 7 Professional 64bit  
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
Dell P2210Hb 21.5" 1920x1080p Viewsonic VA2012WB 20.1" LCD 1680x1050 Dell U3014 Eizo 27" 1440p 10bit RGB-LED Backlit AH-IPS Panel 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
55" LG HDTV (their top 2014 model) Ducky Mechanical (Browns) NZXT HALE90 850W + 8 blown-up AX1200/i's NZXT Switch 810 (White) 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
R.A.T.3 + MX510 My Desk GRADO RS1i Headphones Grado PS1000 Headphones 
OtherOtherOtherOther
Bitfenix Hydra Pro Fan Controller 5ch 30W/ch Bitfenix Alchemy Individually-Sleeved Extension... NZXT Individually-Sleeved Front Panel Wires (Bl... Phobya Sleeved 1x3pin-to-4x3pin Fan Splitter 
OtherOtherOther
Sleeved Wires w Paracord myself (no Heatshrink) Custom Front and Top Panels w HexxMesh *In Prog... Working on Custom Pedestal Prototype 
  hide details  
Reply
post #43 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

I use 12AWG because I know that it's more than enough for the runs I make, and I am constantly changing stuff (no joke, it's a big reason Ihad the whole house redone with on-call wiring, to minimize my constant wishy washy-ness).

I would suggest getting banana plugs, because despite being a factual measurement, the thickness of 12AWG cables varies significantly between manufacturers. With binding posts, I have seen 12 that has room to spare and others that wouldn't come close to fitting. Banana plugs remove the variable, and also make it so much easier to move things around. Again monoprice has good ones. It's an inexpensive way to aalleviate future frustration.

Well, thank you once again. You always write extremely informative posts. IF/when you get a chance, could you give me a run-down on everything I'd need for the banana connections?>


Here's a pic of the back of the speaker. Please forgive my ignorance, but aren't the plugs mandatory in this case? I dont see how else the wire would connect.

pioneerspbs41lrddualview_zps99828a5b.jpg
Edited by scatlm - 4/17/14 at 3:08pm
post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGroove View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by scatlm View Post

What's the benefit of using 12AWG over 16? Better conductivity? I already have RCA 16GA coming my way.

No benefit.
Quote:
According to the table for two conductor copper wire given in former Director of Acoustic Research for McIntosh Labs (and the originator of McIntosh loudspeakers) Roger Russell's online article "Speaker Wire, A History" (http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm), 18 AWG is satisfactory for maximum length runs of 32 feet when connecting eight-ohm speakers. The maximum length for 16 AWG wire is 48 feet and for 12 AWG speaker wires the maximum length is 120 feet. Halve those distances if you are using four-ohm speakers.

"is satisfactory" doesn't mean "best". The simple fact is that the smaller the diameter of the wire and the longer the run, the less current is delivered. (I = V / R).

But, I would agree that at some combination the differences become to small to be heard, and the better the system, the smaller the difference that can be heard. To put it in perspective, correct speaker wire is just one of perhaps 10-20(?) "tweaks" that, in combination, lead to noticeably improved SQ.
Edited by billbartuska - 4/17/14 at 3:05pm
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post

"is satisfactory" doesn't mean "best". The simple fact is that the smaller the diameter of the wire and the longer the run, the less current is delivered. (I = V / R).

But, I would agree that at some combination the differences become to small to be heard, and the better the system, the smaller the difference that can be heard. To put it in perspective, correct speaker wire is just one of perhaps 10-20(?) "tweaks" that, in combination, lead to noticeably improved SQ.

Here, "satisfactory" is just based on a conservative rule of thumb of not wanting wire resistance to be over 5% of nominal speaker impedance, as pointed out. It's maybe an arbitrary cutoff, but it should be more than good enough. In practice, the effect of the extra wire impedance (other than just across-the-board slightly lower volume) is going to depend on the characteristics of the speakers and crossover. And the effect of room interactions, positioning, the speaker response themselves in anechoic chamber, etc. is much greater. i.e. it's something to keep in mind, but there are much bigger fish to fry.
post #46 of 54
Thread Starter 
....
Edited by scatlm - 4/17/14 at 8:21pm
post #47 of 54
With the connection posts, and bare wire, just strip 1/4-1/2 an inch of shielding off the end of the wire, unscrew the top of thepost a bit and there sshould be a pair of holes (across from another). Slide the bare copper through and gently tighten.

Banana plugs are installed close to the same way, I mean the wire to the banana plug. Then, you just pressure fit the banana plug in to the top of the post. It's convenient and can reduce wear on the components. Plus, they look quite nice.
   
Z77 Bench-a-lot
(31 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3930K @ 4.92Ghz Asus Rampage 4 Extreme EVGA GTX670 FTW 2GB  EVGA GTX780Ti Classified K|ngp|n Edition @ 1483... 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
EVGA GTX780Ti Classified K|ngp|n Edition @ 1483... 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws-Z @ DDR3-2248 9-10-9-26 1T Samsung 830 256GB SSD WD10EZEX 1TB HDD 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
WD10EALX 1TB HDD Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 1TB WD3200AAKS 320GB HDD WD5000HHTZ 10krpm 500GB VelociRaptor 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
LG/Hitachi Slim DVD-R/W Custom MB-Backside VRM-sinks (Copper) 3x NZXT RF-FX140LB 1-2krpm 98.3CFM Case Fans 2x Corsair SP120-PE Case Fans 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Heatkiller GTX680 "Hole Edition" Block + Backplate XSPC Single-Bay Res (Single 5.25 bay) EK Multioption Res X2 - Advanced 150 DD "Fill-Port Res" + Fill-Port Fitting (Red) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
2x MCP35X + Heatsinks/80x15mm Fan XSPC EX420 Alphacool NeXXos UT60 240 6x Bgears Blasters 140mm 1800rpm Fans 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
4x Koolance 120x25mm 2600rpm Fans Comp/Rotary Fittings (BP/XSPC/Monsoon) Primoflex Pro LRT - White (1/2x3/4) Windows 7 Professional 64bit  
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
Dell P2210Hb 21.5" 1920x1080p Viewsonic VA2012WB 20.1" LCD 1680x1050 Dell U3014 Eizo 27" 1440p 10bit RGB-LED Backlit AH-IPS Panel 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
55" LG HDTV (their top 2014 model) Ducky Mechanical (Browns) NZXT HALE90 850W + 8 blown-up AX1200/i's NZXT Switch 810 (White) 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
R.A.T.3 + MX510 My Desk GRADO RS1i Headphones Grado PS1000 Headphones 
OtherOtherOtherOther
Bitfenix Hydra Pro Fan Controller 5ch 30W/ch Bitfenix Alchemy Individually-Sleeved Extension... NZXT Individually-Sleeved Front Panel Wires (Bl... Phobya Sleeved 1x3pin-to-4x3pin Fan Splitter 
OtherOtherOther
Sleeved Wires w Paracord myself (no Heatshrink) Custom Front and Top Panels w HexxMesh *In Prog... Working on Custom Pedestal Prototype 
  hide details  
Reply
   
Z77 Bench-a-lot
(31 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3930K @ 4.92Ghz Asus Rampage 4 Extreme EVGA GTX670 FTW 2GB  EVGA GTX780Ti Classified K|ngp|n Edition @ 1483... 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
EVGA GTX780Ti Classified K|ngp|n Edition @ 1483... 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws-Z @ DDR3-2248 9-10-9-26 1T Samsung 830 256GB SSD WD10EZEX 1TB HDD 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
WD10EALX 1TB HDD Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 1TB WD3200AAKS 320GB HDD WD5000HHTZ 10krpm 500GB VelociRaptor 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
LG/Hitachi Slim DVD-R/W Custom MB-Backside VRM-sinks (Copper) 3x NZXT RF-FX140LB 1-2krpm 98.3CFM Case Fans 2x Corsair SP120-PE Case Fans 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Heatkiller GTX680 "Hole Edition" Block + Backplate XSPC Single-Bay Res (Single 5.25 bay) EK Multioption Res X2 - Advanced 150 DD "Fill-Port Res" + Fill-Port Fitting (Red) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
2x MCP35X + Heatsinks/80x15mm Fan XSPC EX420 Alphacool NeXXos UT60 240 6x Bgears Blasters 140mm 1800rpm Fans 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
4x Koolance 120x25mm 2600rpm Fans Comp/Rotary Fittings (BP/XSPC/Monsoon) Primoflex Pro LRT - White (1/2x3/4) Windows 7 Professional 64bit  
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
Dell P2210Hb 21.5" 1920x1080p Viewsonic VA2012WB 20.1" LCD 1680x1050 Dell U3014 Eizo 27" 1440p 10bit RGB-LED Backlit AH-IPS Panel 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
55" LG HDTV (their top 2014 model) Ducky Mechanical (Browns) NZXT HALE90 850W + 8 blown-up AX1200/i's NZXT Switch 810 (White) 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
R.A.T.3 + MX510 My Desk GRADO RS1i Headphones Grado PS1000 Headphones 
OtherOtherOtherOther
Bitfenix Hydra Pro Fan Controller 5ch 30W/ch Bitfenix Alchemy Individually-Sleeved Extension... NZXT Individually-Sleeved Front Panel Wires (Bl... Phobya Sleeved 1x3pin-to-4x3pin Fan Splitter 
OtherOtherOther
Sleeved Wires w Paracord myself (no Heatshrink) Custom Front and Top Panels w HexxMesh *In Prog... Working on Custom Pedestal Prototype 
  hide details  
Reply
post #48 of 54
LOL,
I just spent an hour this afternoon rearranging the sound panels on my walls! Another thing that's almost universally overlooked is re-tightening the mounting bolts on woofers after break in and yearly thereafter.

Hears rummaging for screwdriver.....
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

With the connection posts, and bare wire, just strip 1/4-1/2 an inch of shielding off the end of the wire, unscrew the top of thepost a bit and there sshould be a pair of holes (across from another). Slide the bare copper through and gently tighten.
Be careful not to clamp down on the insulation, just the copper.
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #50 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

With the connection posts, and bare wire, just strip 1/4-1/2 an inch of shielding off the end of the wire, unscrew the top of thepost a bit and there sshould be a pair of holes (across from another). Slide the bare copper through and gently tighten.

Banana plugs are installed close to the same way, I mean the wire to the banana plug. Then, you just pressure fit the banana plug in to the top of the post. It's convenient and can reduce wear on the components. Plus, they look quite nice.


Awesome, thanks

The receiver-end also takes banana plugs, right?

What do you think of this Sewell 12 AWG OF cable with banana plugs:

www.ebay.com/itm/141121386801?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I've been giving everyone reps like mad (if that even matters.)
Edited by scatlm - 4/17/14 at 7:26pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sound Cards and Computer Audio
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Sound Cards and Computer Audio › Pioneer SP-BS41-LR bookshelf speakers