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Will there be an AM4 socket or new AM3+ chipset soon...or ever?

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
Well, I am assuming that this has been asked many times before, but I am just wondering if there have been any more recent news on the matter. Will AMD drop their CPU support and try to focus solely on their APU line? I just want a little more information.
post #2 of 30
People are going to say "The features used on the previous AMx platforms are outdated and the FM2+ series is more up to date, so no."
I guess they forget that they can take those features, and continue with the AMx platform with those new features. It's like saying PCI 3.0 is out of date, and there will not be any motherboards with PCIe anymore since it's old. Well... they can make boards with PCIe 4.0 doh.gif
Please note that I do know PCIe 3.0 is coming out, and PCIe 4.0 doesn't exist. That was an example.

I saw there will be a successor to AM3+, it may not be AM4, but it will continue. AMD reps have said the FX line isn't dead, and since HSA/HuMA isn't in full swing yet, AMD will still need a presence there. It's speculated that the main reason for no SR FC chips is that the possible profits wouldn't warrant producing SR server chips. FX desktop chips are FX server chips cut in half. I add to that saying they were also backing HSA significantly by showing they aren't afraid to continue without the usual desktop chip.

Not to mention the high price and low yields for those massive FX dies
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post #3 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcEsSalvation View Post

People are going to say "The features used on the previous AMx platforms are outdated and the FM2+ series is more up to date, so no."
I guess they forget that they can take those features, and continue with the AMx platform with those new features. It's like saying PCI 3.0 is out of date, and there will not be any motherboards with PCIe anymore since it's old. Well... they can make boards with PCIe 4.0 doh.gif
Please note that I do know PCIe 3.0 is coming out, and PCIe 4.0 doesn't exist. That was an example.

I saw there will be a successor to AM3+, it may not be AM4, but it will continue. AMD reps have said the FX line isn't dead, and since HSA/HuMA isn't in full swing yet, AMD will still need a presence there. It's speculated that the main reason for no SR FC chips is that the possible profits wouldn't warrant producing SR server chips. FX desktop chips are FX server chips cut in half. I add to that saying they were also backing HSA significantly by showing they aren't afraid to continue without the usual desktop chip.

Not to mention the high price and low yields for those massive FX dies
Interesting. I hope the AMx does not die off, and that the FX continues. For me personally, using an FM2+ board/processor is pointless since I will not use the iGPU, and be able to get performance that is better than the A10 7850k's with the similarly priced FX8350 or an i5 4750. So, there is really no point for a user to go FM2+ over Intel/AM3+, aside from AMD love or extreme budget builds.
post #4 of 30
Most people I see on here want to have a minimum, usually minimum 60FPS. Add in poor coding in games... and you need to have an overclocked i5 minimum. But I'm a bit different, I look for the most power for my money, and that always comes to a 970/990 board with a 6300.
I would love to see HSA come to games, but if this can really do everything they expect it to, we won't need chips like a 4930k to get amazing frame rates. I want to see FX series, but I realize that it may no longer be needed soon.
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post #5 of 30
Pardon my ignorance, but what are the technical limitations (if any) of the FM sockets that would prevent AMD from making an FX line that shares the same socket as their APU line?

And, if there are current limitations, would it be possible for a next generation socket to do this?
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post #6 of 30
It's all about the architecture on the CPU. Also, I think the FM series has capabilities for more PCIe lanes... Of course they could bring that over to AMx. I'm not that great on the extremely technical stuff, but I don't think they can have FX on the FMx line as of now. But they could always bring FMx abilities to AMx on the next revision.
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post #7 of 30
There is no planned successor to the AM3(+) socket. There was a 1090FX platform planned ages ago, presumably to be AM4, but that was canned years ago. The K15 (Bulldozer family) "FX" CPU's were all derived from the server-based Opterons, and these all share the same die, with the only difference being that the FX versions only use one of the four HyperTransport links on the chip. The only successor to the previous Piledriver Opteron was Warsaw, which is still Piledriver-based, only using "enhanced Piledriver" cores on a MCM (multi-chip module) setup. Warsaw extends into 2015, which means there are no FX chips which can be derived from it, as the chip package would be too big for the AM3+ socket.

There have been murmurs of a future socket which would be the "combined" socket, but what this means, no one outside of AMD currently knows. It may mean the socket would house both consumer and server/enterprise products, or it would house both APU's and FX-style CPU's, but AMD seems to be doing APU's only in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knifemind View Post

Pardon my ignorance, but what are the technical limitations (if any) of the FM sockets that would prevent AMD from making an FX line that shares the same socket as their APU line?

And, if there are current limitations, would it be possible for a next generation socket to do this?

It would depend on the chip itself. Different amounts of PCIe lanes and other technologies (such as how it links up with the Southbridge, or whether or not the SB is integrated onto the CPU itself, etc.) can affect the pin count/layout of the chip, which would result in a physical incompatibility between sockets and chips. For example, FX CPU's still have the Northbridge off the chip, whilst FMx APU's/CPU's have the NB integrated onto the die itself. CPU uarch also affects this.
post #8 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

There was a 1090FX platform planned ages ago, presumably to be AM4, but that was canned years ago.
1090FX was AM3+ with a FM(x) Southbridge that had native support of USB 3.0. The reasoning for this was because Komodo was going to be on socket FM2b, later redesigned to be FM2+. FM2+ is black because it was going to feature the Corona platform; Komodo 10-core Piledriver on 32nm with PCIe 3.0 and it's successor 10-core Steamroller on 28nm. Both of these were going to be FX processors, on the FM2b socket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

Warsaw extends into 2015, which means there are no FX chips which can be derived from it, as the chip package would be too big for the AM3+ socket.
Warsaw does not extend all the way through 2015.

Interlagos was replaced by Abu Dhabi within one year.
Abu Dhabi was replaced by Warsaw within close to one year.

Interlagos and Abu Dhabi both launched in Novemeber while Warsaw launched in the Janaury of the next year.

Interlagos - Q4 2011
Abu Dhabi - Q4 2012
Warsaw - Q1 2014

Warsaw will be replaced within one year and three months by a new Opteron.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

There have been murmurs of a future socket which would be the "combined" socket, but what this means, no one outside of AMD currently knows. It may mean the socket would house both consumer and server/enterprise products, or it would house both APU's and FX-style CPU's, but AMD seems to be doing APU's only in the future.
It would depend on the chip itself. Different amounts of PCIe lanes and other technologies (such as how it links up with the Southbridge, or whether or not the SB is integrated onto the CPU itself, etc.) can affect the pin count/layout of the chip, which would result in a physical incompatibility between sockets and chips. For example, FX CPU's still have the Northbridge off the chip, whilst FMx APU's/CPU's have the NB integrated onto the die itself. CPU uarch also affects this.
I'm going to number by the sentence;

1/2 - The combined socket is between Enterprise and Consumer, same socket for different market.
3/4 - Komodo had the Northbridge on die with a IOMMU 2.0 unit for discrete hUMA. The future only CPU cores on the die for Opteron and FX, will have the Northbridge and Southbridge on die.
----

The future of the FX and Opteron platform will be on the un-named LGA1976 socket from AMD.

What differentiates socket LGA1974 and socket LGA1976:
- Removal of MCM.
- 8 HT Links to 2 HT Links. (New configuration; one 8-bit HT 4.0 link to Freedom Fabric / three 8-bit HT 4.0 links to each processor for 4P)
- 32 PCIe to 48 PCIe. 16 GPP links for 4 x 4 PCIe 3.0(some of these links might be applied to 10 Gigabit controllers), and 32 cHT/PCIe for 4 x 8 PCIe 3/HT4. I think the cHT/PCIe link is for Native Hypershare which is Hypertransport through PCIe. Since the packets are cache coherent it allows for FPGA/ASIC accelerators to be hUMA'inated. You can have ccPCIE 3.0 or ccHTX 4.0 for the slots for the accelerators.
etc.

---
Just want to add the 16 GPP links are controlled from the internal southbridge I/O and is not connected to the; two cHT and two cHT/PCIe interfaces. Those connect directly into northbridge while the GPP links connect indirectly. (GPP <-> Southbridge <-> Northbridge <-> GFX )

I think the 16 GPP links are separated withn two categories; outside connections and storage connections;
8 links to; NICs/Soundcard/USB etc. <-- The 8 links can possibly link to something called a Northhub or Northswitch to provide more links.
8 links to; SATA Express, etc. <-- The 8 links can possibly link to something called a Southhub or Southswitch to provide more links.
---
Edited by Seronx - 4/16/14 at 7:48pm
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post #9 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post

I think the cHT/PCIe link is for Native Hypershare which is Hypertransport through PCIe. Since the packets are cache coherent it allows for FPGA/ASIC accelerators to be hUMA'inated. You can have ccPCIE 3.0 or ccHTX 4.0 for the slots for the accelerators.

So this means that probably the next big processor from AMD will have HSA/hUMA even without a iGPU on it's die, that's quite interesting since I know the potential of HSA, it does wonders. As far as the mobile platforms, HSA accelerated task on snapdragon processors (Qualcomm is a founder member of HSA Foundation) makes it up-to 10x-60x faster than the same task in non-HSA mode.

I'm just trying to imagine what it'd be rolleyes.gif...a CPU like this running HSA-accel games on a GPU (R9 3xx, rumored??) that can easily handle 4k even at DX11 and couple that to Mantle/DX12..just totally blown away by the thought, Hope I'm not daydreaming biggrin.gif
    
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post #10 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by imran27 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post

I think the cHT/PCIe link is for Native Hypershare which is Hypertransport through PCIe. Since the packets are cache coherent it allows for FPGA/ASIC accelerators to be hUMA'inated. You can have ccPCIE 3.0 or ccHTX 4.0 for the slots for the accelerators.

So this means that probably the next big processor from AMD will have HSA/hUMA even without a iGPU on it's die, that's quite interesting since I know the potential of HSA, it does wonders. As far as the mobile platforms, HSA accelerated task on snapdragon processors (Qualcomm is a founder member of HSA Foundation) makes it up-to 10x-60x faster than the same task in non-HSA mode.

I'm just trying to imagine what it'd be rolleyes.gif...a CPU like this running HSA-accel games on a GPU (R9 3xx, rumored??) that can easily handle 4k even at DX11 and couple that to Mantle/DX12..just totally blown away by the thought, Hope I'm not daydreaming biggrin.gif

Don't forget Mantle lets different parts of a game be deferred to different GPUs and it's not forced into AFR.

Meaning that if AMD is very smart about it, we could see a situation where you could run multiple GPUs and a CPU and all could be sharing memory and all could be working together. We wouldn't need each GPU to have a copy of everything in memory as each GPU would be reading things from the other's memory.

It's a daunting task to say the least, but if/when AMD pulls it off, it's going to be unstoppable.

Look at how hard a 7850k creams anything Intel offers in OpenOffice HSA. Now imagine that with a 4m/8c or higher AMD CPU and 4 GPUs like Hawaii (but newer) would look like. AMD wouldn't be competing with Intel because Intel would be so far behind that they would have no hope of catching up unless they pulled something like HSA.
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