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post #101 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokkan View Post

a lady beg on her knees to retrieve her data from her computer over the weekend on perfectly good computers that all it took was take out the hard drive and put it on another computer to get the data back (computer failure). If this very same computer had Raid in it, the data would've been lost.

Why would the data have been lost? Impossible to enable RAID on the other computer and plug the drives in?
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post #102 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post

Why would the data have been lost? Impossible to enable RAID on the other computer and plug the drives in?
Correct, the RAID metadata should allow any compatible controller or RAID reconstruction software to retrieve. Note the word "should"....

RAID adds a proprietary layer of abstraction over the standard open (not open-source) file systems. It absolutely does increase the risk or makes data recovery more difficult.
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post #103 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit Igor View Post

Never regret for things you do ,only for things you didn't do.

That's a cliche....

You absolutely should regret things that you do. If you willfully or purposely do things based on ignorance or malice, regret it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNegotiator View Post

To be honest, I wish someone had told me to stop. I would have saved some money. Obviously, if a person really wants to try something, then more power to them. But others may see people talking about SSDs in RAID0 and if they didn't see any warnings, assume there's no risk involved. If someone said upfront that they understand the risks then I would find people telling them to stop annoying since the original poster already accepted the risk that comes with it, but otherwise...
See, this is the point exactly...

There is a difference between "just answering a question" and "providing a good response".

For example, if someone posted asking "How do I set up RAID0 to improve my games?". The response should not be on how to setup RAID0 immediately. A better response would gather more details on expectations and then providing guidance.
Edited by DuckieHo - 4/20/14 at 9:30pm
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post #104 of 181
Thread Starter 
I am just peaking between caching fish.
I see we are on 11 pages of this hot theme and still nobody came to report failed RAID array.Which was by the way subject of this thread ,to report failed arrays.
I see only few people notice that.
post #105 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit Igor View Post

I am just peaking between caching fish.
I see we are on 11 pages of this hot theme and still nobody came to report failed RAID array.Which was by the way subject of this thread ,to report failed arrays.
I see only few people notice that.

Nobody has said so on OCN therefore it must just not be possible.

I originally came into the thread to explain how a mate of mine did Raid on the advice of his local PC store, when one drive died he tried to recover with the second one but there was no chance of salvaging it. He lost quite a lot of info due to it all. They were done on Samsung 830's so no they weren't cheap/ old drives and we took it in to a different store to have an expert try and recover and even he said that it's common for when a Raid dies, both drives worth of data can be lost.

Dunno why I'm posting it though, I'm sure that it'll be nothing more than 'he did it wrong' or etc.
post #106 of 181
Nice thread wink.gif

Let me try. Let us take three SSD's, say each has a failure rate of 0.5 % so pretty good, right? Let us take the first SSD - the probability of it dying per time unit (lets say per year) is just 0.5 % exactly same as it's failure rate. Now let us take the second one also - both of them have a failure probability of 0.5% per year individually. How big is the probability that exactly one of them fails - well - this is probability that one of them fails, the 0.5% times the probability that the second one of them does not fail which is 99.5% so this is 0.005*0.995 = 0.004975 or in percentages 0.4975 %, but wait - this is not all the possibilities - there is also small possibility that both drives fail during the one year period (which ofc is irrelevant unless they happen to do so in the same time). This is quite small percentage of 0.0025 % and then you have probability that the first drive fails and the second one does not also with the probability of 0.4975 %. So probability of losing the array if you have two of these in Raid 0 - this is 0.4975 % (first drive fails, second does not) plus (or) 0.4975 % (first drive does not, second drive fails) plus (or) 0.0025% (both drives fail) -> 0.9975 % (which is btw the same result you will get with Dukies formula). I just expanded how, exactly, does one arrive at that result. That btw means that you have 99.0025% probability that nothing happens.

You can add the same way the third and more SSD's into the mix. The trick with probabilities is that they always add up to exactly 100% or they are not probabilities - something happens, even if this something is "nothing happens" at some given probability.

As far as having SSD's in RAID 0 goes - I did not see any real benefit TBH. Granted I have a lot of RAM and RAM is still 10x faster than the fastest SSD's and even SSD speed is mostly relevant for booting times - which is not that large part of my daily routine. Once you have booted and prefetch does it's magic for stuff you do predictably it can be hard to tell the difference between HDD and SSD, not to mention SSD's in RAID 0 or as regular individual drives. Just depends on how predictable you are exactly and how much RAM you have. Well to be entirely fair some HDD latency remains but it's not as bad as running HDD with just enough amount of RAM to run your programs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit Igor View Post

I am just peaking between caching fish.
I see we are on 11 pages of this hot theme and still nobody came to report failed RAID array.Which was by the way subject of this thread ,to report failed arrays.
I see only few people notice that.

BTW I believe I saw at least one report of failed RAID 0 SSD array earlier in this thread. Edit: Yes - post #15 in the present thread, for example.

Edit 2: To clarify - I have had RAID failure, although it was with HDD's not SSD's the probabilities work the same. And it was hardware RAID 5, not RAID 0. With non-transferable hardware RAID you just can add the failure rates of other components (say, a motherboard) into the probabilities.
Edited by Carniflex - 4/21/14 at 4:45am
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post #107 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit Igor View Post

I am just peaking between caching fish.
I see we are on 11 pages of this hot theme and still nobody came to report failed RAID array.Which was by the way subject of this thread ,to report failed arrays.
I see only few people notice that.
You have no background in mathematics or science do you? rolleyes.gif Just because you created a thread about RAID failures and few posts about RAID failing... it does not support your position because it is obviously sampling issues. If I made a post that said "Everyone who can fly by flapping there arms, please post here." and 3 people post that they can't.... what does that prove? Nothing since since sampling methodology is obvious flawed especially since it requires volunteers seeking to post information.

In fact, if you filter out the post talking about RAID success/failures.... the people with bad experience with RAID0 SSD failing is probably around 10%. I have had RAID0 3xSSDs not be rebuildable but not due to SSD failure. One other person said theirs failed.

Again, again, again... if you don't understand probabilities, you aren't qualified to talk about the risk of RAID failure rates.
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post #108 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit Igor View Post

I am just peaking between caching fish.
I see we are on 11 pages of this hot theme and still nobody came to report failed RAID array.Which was by the way subject of this thread ,to report failed arrays.
I see only few people notice that.
Did you read my post all the way through on the last page? My SSD RAID0 array failed... Twice.
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post #109 of 181
I ran 8x 256gb crucial c300 in raid0 for around 6 months, no dropped array. Have now had 3 in raid 0 for ~3 years, no dropped array, no issues. I was the first I saw online to really test these particular drives, and test them on a few different raid controllers. (I bought 8 on day 1 (at 800$/ea biggrin.gif))

The reality is that you can yield good data from a small sample size but that size still likely needs to be larger than would be collected in a few pages of a forum thread. In my opinion there is a bit too much raid0 fear mongering but if you're just following the math it's quite clear there is a much greater risk of data loss for a (very) disproportionately small performance increase. You have to decide if the greater risk of data loss is worth the small increase in performance.
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post #110 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNegotiator View Post

Did you read my post all the way through on the last page? My SSD RAID0 array failed... Twice.
And did you read my first post where I strictly distance thread from ,HDD,OCZ and early Corsair SSDs.I distance thread from HDD array because I never had one and i can talk about reliability of HDD array.I distance thread from OCZ because OCZ is everything but not reliable manufacturer. I thanks them for pushing this SSD story but i would never thanks them with buying one of there products. I leave that to others.
So ,12 pages and we still don't have failed SSD RAID 0 array.At this moment i strictly distance my self from this thread.There is to much fire and at this moment even if somebody report failure i would not believe them.
Of course only person i can believe is ,Sean ,parsec ,doorules and Jon Coulter aka.Bill Gates,RAID 0 reviewer from TWEAKTOWN.I would love he post here ,because he made there at least 20 reviews,to see did he had failure just one of those 20.
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