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G502 Pros and Cons for Logitech to fix with its next shell for this sensor - Page 11

post #101 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post

One thing to note is that, while the sensor performs equally well at all DPI, as far as accuracy and accel, it is NOT Native at every DPI. It is STILL a 12,000 dpi sensor, which means if you lower the resolution, you are going to have "less" response along the dead zone (where you start or where you try to switch directions) than you would on a higher resolution, because it still has to drop counts. Try setting the mouse to 12,000 DPI. You will notice that it catches ANY of the slightest possible movement, even muscle vibrations on your palm can cause the pointer to move--that's how amazingly sensitive it is. Now set it to 6000 dpi--it doesn't catch those "breathe at the mouse and the pointer moves" impulses, since it's running at half the resolution..

However, setting it to something like 1600 DPI (1600 DPI on this sensor seems to be equal to 1800 on a Deathadder 3.5G/Black), and compare it to a deathadder at the same DPI (in this case 1800 though), you will notice the deathadder being a bit more responsive instantly to the 'dead zone' at middle, when using ultra fine adjustments, since the DA is operating at its true native resolution (3500 isn't really usable); you can notice this if you are trying to 'pixel hunt' with very tiny movements. It's just a VERY slight difference..you can only notice it if you are trying to move pixel by pixel left/right, or up/down, etc. Otherwise it's unnoticeable (unless you're trying to snipe at a scout's head in TF2 or something...)

Setting the G502 sensor to 6000 DPI (half of 12,000), like 1800 DPI is half of 3500 on the Adders) gives you about the exact same fast response (maybe a bit more) at neutral/changing directions, with ultra fine adjustments, as 1800 does on the deathadder. So the feel is going to be very slightly different when you lower the DPI of this sensor, compared to another sensor running at its native setting, but only at very tiny microadjustments like that.

Just something to keep in mind.

I'm afraid that is completely wrong. Others pointed out flaws already but just to make it clear:

The sensor probably does not have a much bigger image array than the previous mice which varied from 20x20 to 33x33 afaik, with the most common being 30x30 lately. The higher resolution probably comes from a much higher frame rate and a honed algorithm.

Any deadlzone you feel at 6000 dpi is placebo. This sensor feels much more connected than any of my older mice did, on every setting I tried. Of course 6000 dpi doesn't pick up as many small movements as 6000 does, but that is due to the nature of resolution.

Also native dpi is a setting that is native to the sensor on dsp level and takes no recalculation via MCU or worse software.

The way you describe above (using only one native setting and dropping counts from there for all other steps) is something that Zowie does mostly, not the general way to do this.
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post #102 of 220
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post #103 of 220
i think i found my substitute until logitech makes a light mouse with the 3366. My Roccat pyra arrived from Korea today. default dpi with no software is 800dpi. 1000hz. max speed i was able to get so far is 4.57 m/s. no acceleration.
post #104 of 220
I should also note, it's not just 4 feet. If you look closely there are 2 feet above and below the sensor. The feet setup is really strange.
post #105 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricey20 View Post

I should also note, it's not just 4 feet. If you look closely there are 2 feet above and below the sensor. The feet setup is really strange.
Must be required for using their sensors look at corsair M40 same type of sensor 5 pads biggrin.gif.
Really the position of the pads shouldn't affect glide performance. Ionno why anyone would be upset over the position and shape of the pads as if there is a consensus on perfect pad set up. Really the 2 large pads top and bottom or 4 same sized pads at the corners have been based on convenience. Cost to cut and place pads and real estate on the mouse where you can afford to mold plastic to receive the pads, some don't even mold the plastic just slap pads onto the mouse trusting the sensor doesn't need to be that close to the surface to read it.
post #106 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by semantics View Post

Must be required for using their sensors look at corsair M40 same type of sensor 5 pads biggrin.gif.
Really the position of the pads shouldn't affect glide performance. Ionno why anyone would be upset over the position and shape of the pads as if there is a consensus on perfect pad set up. Really the 2 large pads top and bottom or 4 same sized pads at the corners have been based on convenience. Cost to cut and place pads and real estate on the mouse where you can afford to mold plastic to receive the pads, some don't even mold the plastic just slap pads onto the mouse trusting the sensor doesn't need to be that close to the surface to read it.

Yea I haven't had any personal issues with the feet yet, though if you do, for some reason, tilt your mouse to the right a bit you end up scratching the bottom of the mouse where there is no feet. They seemed to have been trying really hard to cover all sides of the mouse with feet yet they missed a side.
post #107 of 220
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bushzyxx View Post

Whenever they release a mouse with that sensor and a proper feet arrangement i'll be buying it. Weight isn't much of an issue to me as the g400s is heavier atm.

The mouse feet setup looks awful, but it still glides better than mice like the Roccat Kova+ for instance. You have to take off the bottom weight cartridge compartment though. If you don't, it does have pretty terrible glide.
post #108 of 220
I very much like the suggestions, but wonder if they will be heard.

The G502 was made with the aim to satisfy about everyone in one package. That just had to fail.
They put every possible feature into it and that is feature overkill, killing the mouse for more people than making it a perfect fit for anyone.
It is great for checkmark customers. "12.000 dpi and many buttons and name Proteus Core - must be the best mouse ever".

I dunno what is wrong with their design department.

At first they go nuts with the surface texture and put strange rally stripes on the "S" models.
Then they make mice button design angular to look somewhat like the RAT mice, despite having their usual and well teste shape beneath.
Everything they learned about mouse feet apparently got forgotten - back to the tiny, oddly shaped feet instead of a few large ones, seriously?

And the worst is they have to add their "premium" brand special feature, the infinite scroll wheel. Now even bigger, larger and made out of metal. As if a mouse wheel ever breaks. It's always the suspension. But why this supposedly oh so awesome feature cannot be realized without the mouse wheel producing quite a rattling noise in the usual mode, that's beyond my understanding.

I don't find the textured plastics grip surface too much, smooth is more to my liking, but better than the rubber inlays so popular among the competitors atm.

Don't get me wrong, I love Logitech. I am damn used to the MX518/G400 shape, I have used it for years and it fits my large hand very well.


My suggestions:

- Keep the basic G502 shape, but remove the angular deco you put all over it. I.e. less pronounced right mouse button lengt for no particular reason other than looks.
Because trying to change a smooth mouse shape is a bit like trying to improve on the round nature of the "wheel", it can only make it worse.
No need to look different than the competitors by making your products awkwardly angular to gain "character" or sth like that. Or to put rally stripes on them. Did anyone ever love the looks of the S mice, ever?

- Get a rubber wheel that is not sticking out, working silently or very inaudible and keep the precise feel of the wheels you used so far. Forget about 4 way wheels and infinite scroll stuff.
- Make it 2-4 mouse large feet
- Balance the weight of the mouse and rather make two different mice than adding weight slots to mice that already are on the heavy side
- Fancy LED lights are acceptable, I don't need or want them, but at least you let me switch them off.
post #109 of 220
The good news imo is that the g502 is $80 retail. The g100s is like $20 now. The g502 can't replace the g400s because they can't leave such a large pricing gap between wired gaming mice. $20-80, that gap is massive. Logitech needs a modern wired mouse to fit between those two mice. The g400s is almost certainly going to be replaced with another $50-$60 wired gaming mouse. If the g400s is going to get replaced with another $50-$60 retail wired gaming mouse, we will likely see a sensor comparable to the g502 in a mouse that is lighter then the g502, but still much higher build quality then the g100s. Hopefully we'll see a quality wired mouse without the weight mechanic, and without the heavy metal scroll wheel, and odd mouse feet, but still with the high quality cable and sensor of the g502.
If the g502 was $60 retail, i feel like it would effectively be replacing the g400s and we would only get a lighter mouse in an extremely cheap form. So i'm happy that is not the case.
Edited by Atavax - 4/24/14 at 10:26am
post #110 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longasc View Post

I very much like the suggestions, but wonder if they will be heard.

The G502 was made with the aim to satisfy about everyone in one package. That just had to fail.
They put every possible feature into it and that is feature overkill, killing the mouse for more people than making it a perfect fit for anyone.
It is great for checkmark customers. "12.000 dpi and many buttons and name Proteus Core - must be the best mouse ever".

I dunno what is wrong with their design department.

At first they go nuts with the surface texture and put strange rally stripes on the "S" models.
Then they make mice button design angular to look somewhat like the RAT mice, despite having their usual and well teste shape beneath.
Everything they learned about mouse feet apparently got forgotten - back to the tiny, oddly shaped feet instead of a few large ones, seriously?

And the worst is they have to add their "premium" brand special feature, the infinite scroll wheel. Now even bigger, larger and made out of metal. As if a mouse wheel ever breaks. It's always the suspension. But why this supposedly oh so awesome feature cannot be realized without the mouse wheel producing quite a rattling noise in the usual mode, that's beyond my understanding.

I don't find the textured plastics grip surface too much, smooth is more to my liking, but better than the rubber inlays so popular among the competitors atm.

Don't get me wrong, I love Logitech. I am damn used to the MX518/G400 shape, I have used it for years and it fits my large hand very well.


My suggestions:

- Keep the basic G502 shape, but remove the angular deco you put all over it. I.e. less pronounced right mouse button lengt for no particular reason other than looks.
Because trying to change a smooth mouse shape is a bit like trying to improve on the round nature of the "wheel", it can only make it worse.
No need to look different than the competitors by making your products awkwardly angular to gain "character" or sth like that. Or to put rally stripes on them. Did anyone ever love the looks of the S mice, ever?

- Get a rubber wheel that is not sticking out, working silently or very inaudible and keep the precise feel of the wheels you used so far. Forget about 4 way wheels and infinite scroll stuff.
- Make it 2-4 mouse large feet
- Balance the weight of the mouse and rather make two different mice than adding weight slots to mice that already are on the heavy side
- Fancy LED lights are acceptable, I don't need or want them, but at least you let me switch them off.

I hear what you're saying, but the fact that you call it a design fail is ridiculous. I'm a fairly helpless mouse nerd and own more different mice than I'd like to count, but I absolutely love the G502. It has replaced my Mionix Avior 7000 and that mouse is amazing. Outside of the sniper button there's not a lot that I would want changed. It fits like a glove, performs, and provides a ton of features that are easy to use or ignore. There's nothing wrong with that at all. I'm sure they'll move this sensor into a more stripped down shell and that will work better for a different customer base, but I have absolutely no issue with the product they brought to market.
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