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post #91 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice009 View Post

It seems that Logitech put quite a bit of time, effort and probably a decent amount of money into developing this sensor. Why should other companies get it anytime soon? I doubt Logitech is going to just let other companies use it.

Sadly this makes sense.
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post #92 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfc9x View Post

Now that Logitech has done it, other companies should follow suit and get hold of a sensor that also has 0 smoothing/accel. Soon enough we shouldn't have to rely on Logitech!

Simply LOL
post #93 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ino. View Post

Yes of course the sensor is THE special thing about this mouse, that's where the hype comes from, not from anything else.
And the thing is: we won't see this sensor in any non logitech mouse anytime soon.

Just wait, I bet they'll come up with a smaller form factor sooner or later.

Ye, hope so Ino.

While Pixart already got howto make decent sensors. I can't wait for future mice.
The 3310 is out, the 3366 is a good successor. Lets see what will be released next.

I really hope Logitech gets a grip and pulls out something decent with this sensor ^_^
post #94 of 220
One thing to note is that, while the sensor performs equally well at all DPI, as far as accuracy and accel, it is NOT Native at every DPI. It is STILL a 12,000 dpi sensor, which means if you lower the resolution, you are going to have "less" response along the dead zone (where you start or where you try to switch directions) than you would on a higher resolution, because it still has to drop counts. Try setting the mouse to 12,000 DPI. You will notice that it catches ANY of the slightest possible movement, even muscle vibrations on your palm can cause the pointer to move--that's how amazingly sensitive it is. Now set it to 6000 dpi--it doesn't catch those "breathe at the mouse and the pointer moves" impulses, since it's running at half the resolution..

However, setting it to something like 1600 DPI (1600 DPI on this sensor seems to be equal to 1800 on a Deathadder 3.5G/Black), and compare it to a deathadder at the same DPI (in this case 1800 though), you will notice the deathadder being a bit more responsive instantly to the 'dead zone' at middle, when using ultra fine adjustments, since the DA is operating at its true native resolution (3500 isn't really usable); you can notice this if you are trying to 'pixel hunt' with very tiny movements. It's just a VERY slight difference..you can only notice it if you are trying to move pixel by pixel left/right, or up/down, etc. Otherwise it's unnoticeable (unless you're trying to snipe at a scout's head in TF2 or something...)

Setting the G502 sensor to 6000 DPI (half of 12,000), like 1800 DPI is half of 3500 on the Adders) gives you about the exact same fast response (maybe a bit more) at neutral/changing directions, with ultra fine adjustments, as 1800 does on the deathadder. So the feel is going to be very slightly different when you lower the DPI of this sensor, compared to another sensor running at its native setting, but only at very tiny microadjustments like that.

Just something to keep in mind.
Edited by Falkentyne - 4/19/14 at 11:34am
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post #95 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice009 View Post

It seems that Logitech put quite a bit of time, effort and probably a decent amount of money into developing this sensor. Why should other companies get it anytime soon? I doubt Logitech is going to just let other companies use it.
Not the same sensor, but this could prompt other hardware companies to get hold of a new sensor that also has zero accel/smoothing.
post #96 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post

One thing to note is that, while the sensor performs equally well at all DPI, as far as accuracy and accel, it is NOT Native at every DPI. It is STILL a 12,000 dpi sensor, which means if you lower the resolution, you are going to have "less" response along the dead zone (where you start or where you try to switch directions) than you would on a higher resolution, because it still has to drop counts. Try setting the mouse to 12,000 DPI. You will notice that it catches ANY of the slightest possible movement, even muscle vibrations on your palm can cause the pointer to move--that's how amazingly sensitive it is. Now set it to 6000 dpi--it doesn't catch those "breathe at the mouse and the pointer moves" impulses, since it's running at half the resolution..

However, setting it to something like 1600 DPI (1600 DPI on this sensor seems to be equal to 1800 on a Deathadder 3.5G/Black), and compare it to a deathadder at the same DPI (in this case 1800 though), you will notice the deathadder being a bit more responsive instantly to the 'dead zone' at middle, when using ultra fine adjustments, since the DA is operating at its true native resolution (3500 isn't really usable); you can notice this if you are trying to 'pixel hunt' with very tiny movements.

Setting the G502 sensor to 6000 DPI (half of 12,000), like 1800 DPI is half of 3500 on the Adders) gives you about the exact same fast response (maybe a bit more) at neutral/changing directions, with ultra fine adjustments, as 1800 does on the deathadder. So the feel is going to be very slightly different when you lower the DPI of this sensor, compared to another sensor running at its native setting, but only at very tiny microadjustments like that.

Just something to keep in mind.

I'm pretty sure that's all highly inaccurate. Someone else could give a better technical explanation than I can, but the initial image taken by the sensor is no where near 12k CPI, more like 900 CPI I believe. Then the image is scaled up or down to achieve other native values. That's my understanding of it anyway. The sensors do not start out at their max value and then drop counts downward.
post #97 of 220
i don't think the deadzone has anything to do with max dpi and the dpi you currently have it set at. I think The mouse senses movement and then starts tracking and some mice might have a lower threshold to sense movement than others.

although it is kind of conflicting, Mr. Morier talks about sensor and he says its impossible to build a mouse with a sensor that has 8,000 cpi native, but the company he works for is claiming to have built a sensor with 12,000 cpi native... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc7JVjcPzL0
Edited by Atavax - 4/19/14 at 1:23pm
post #98 of 220
I still wonder how they even achieved 5000 cpi native in the 3310.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmr1 View Post

I'm pretty sure that's all highly inaccurate. Someone else could give a better technical explanation than I can, but the initial image taken by the sensor is no where near 12k CPI, more like 900 CPI I believe. Then the image is scaled up or down to achieve other native values. That's my understanding of it anyway. The sensors do not start out at their max value and then drop counts downward.

Aren't you talking about interpolation? Than this is wrong & the scaled steps aren't native.

None really knows how the 5k cpi in the 3310 or the 12k in the 3366 work.
Especially as Atavax mentioned. That Morier guy said it's like impossible to have those insane native cpi's due to limited space.

So @Falken.
You say it's a 12000 cpi sensor.. you don't even know all the specs of it.

Example: Lets take a random sensor with a Firmware that doubled the cpi. You don't want to tell me the highest cpi value is the most precise one in that case, do you? Or i completely got you wrong?
Also it seems you're implying the 12k is the "true" native resolution.

I have the feeling there is a mixup between "native resolution" and interpolated ones.
post #99 of 220
There's sort of two definitions of native I've seen used. The one the Logitech engineer was speaking about is the raw resolution of the image taken by the sensor. The sensor would have to be huge to capture unaltered 12k CPI so things are done to a smaller image to get there. The other "native" definition, the one that then allows them to qualify 12k DPI as native, I'm not totally clear on but it has something to do with the way it is handled internally that is different from and preferable to interpolation.
post #100 of 220
i would guess, basically there is the resolution of the picture the sensor picks up which is technically the native resolution. Software is then used to adjust that resolution. The sensor image with the adjusted resolution is what commercially is called the native resolution. Then interpolated resolutions take movement measurements with the native resolution and manipulate them through various methods such as multiplying or ignoreing counts to simulate higher or lower sensitivities. So the 3310 and 3366 have "native" resolutions every 50 dpi because they adjust the resolution of the picture instead of manipulating the counts. but i have no idea, not a mouse engineer.
Edited by Atavax - 4/19/14 at 2:22pm
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