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Questions about the FX 8350? - Page 2

post #11 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aonex View Post

Lol didn't take long for this to turn into an i5 vs FX discussion.

ya,,doesn't take long does it
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post #12 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

No really. In games with good multi threading the FX-8350 and 4670k are pretty equal but in poorly threaded games the 4670k will obviously do better. Hence the 4670k is generally regarded as the superior gaming chip of the two. In tasks that have near perfect threading the FX-8350 is faster then an 4670k but there are no games like that and its pretty rare even for software to be able to perfectly load balance over 8 threads.

Not that its a huge issue as both the FX-8350 and 4670k will have enough grunt to push +60FPS in most games.


Thanks for clearing that up
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post #13 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggiddi View Post

Doesn't the 8350 whack the 4670 in multi threaded games like BF3/4 and Crysis 3?

Doesn't matter how "threaded" the game is. The simple of the matter comes down to the fact that a Haswell CORE has more execution resources than an entire PileDriver module combined, and that core is strapped to significantly lower latency, higher bandwidth cache, lower latency FPU access, a shorter instruction pipeline on average, lower branch mis-prediction penalties, lower instruction prefix penalties, a more sophisticated memory controller, and dedicated execution ports for memory access.

The ONLY workloads where the FX-8350 out-performs the i5-4670K, are non-realtime workloads that saturate and bottleneck on the i5's 4-threaded fetch rate. I'm not aware of any real-time workload (game) that scales into parallelism so well that it winds up performing better on the FX-8350. BF4 does scale into parallelism pretty nicely, unfortunately, the FX's better fetch rate (double) isn't enough to overcome all of the other advantages that the i5 has for real-time workload performance, so BF4, which stands as the best example we have of a highly parallel real-time workload that has been optimized to work well on AMD CPUs, winds up performing about the same on the FX-8350 as it does on the i5-4670K. That's a great argument for the AMD chip, in this ONE game title. The problem is that, BF4 is among only a small percentage of CPU intensive games that work as well on a PD module as they do on a haswell core. Most game engines that are CPU intensive, scale much better into the higher performing single non-hyperthreaded haswell core, than into a piledriver module that demands 2 threads to achieve similar compute throughput.

The i7-4770K is basically the i5-4670K, with a fetch rate that matches the FX-8 chips (8 threaded 128Byte/cycle combined maximum). Doubling up on the front end offers performance improvements where the fetch rate was the bottleneck and the execution resources are not (mixed workloads). In these conditions, it offers up to ~35% performance improvements.


AMDs really serious contender for a gaming CPU is the FX-6300@~$110. It can be overclocked further for less money than the FX-8XXX series, which puts it in a price (implementation costs included) class that Intel only offers locked chips at. THAT is the AMD chip with competitive value for gaming.
Edited by mdocod - 4/18/14 at 4:09pm
     
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post #14 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

It doesn't matter how we wrap up the FX-8350; on stock cooling, with cheap cooling, with expensive cooling, on a budget motherboard, on an expensive motherboard, there's a way to get more games to run better on an i5 for the same or less money.

Provide ANY example of the FX-8350+HSF+MOBO+GPU+PSU and I can show an example of an i5+HSF+MOBO+GPU+PSU that costs the same or less that performs better in real-time workloads. To me this means that the FX-8350 isn't a particularly good value for a gaming machine.
Who said anything about the FX 8350 being better than the Core i5s? I'm well aware that Intel CPUs are far ahead of AMD CPUs, but that doesn't mean that the FX 8350 doesn't qualify as a gaming chip.
post #15 of 402
On a Pass/Fail basis, yes, the FX-8350 can be a gaming chip. A GT640-4GB-DDR3 card can also be used for gaming.
     
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post #16 of 402
Not really, no. The FX 8350 more than qualifies as a gaming chip. It is by no means in the league of a GT640 in CPUs. The FX 8350 does very well in games that are heavily multi-threaded and only falls behind when a game favors Intel's architecture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4et7kDGSRfc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICVeN6WEGgg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD6UcsVG56g
post #17 of 402
Real-time workloads NATURALLY favor any architecture that crams as much processing payload into a single logical core as possible. Always have. When AMD had better core design, these workloads favored their "architecture."

Most software actually has not been compiled to favor the haswell core architecture any more than it has been compiled to favor AMD core architecture. There's about 15% "on the table" that hasn't been tweaked out of either architecture in many workloads.


1. Make a list of existing games that spread out the draw calls, AI, and real-time functions of the render to multiple cores.

2. Make a list of existing games that don't.

(start with 1, 2 is everything else. You can probably count the entire list from category "1" on your human digits).

How the heck does a handful of multi-threaded games, in a world with thousands of poorly threaded games, qualify the FX-8350 as a "gaming chip?"
     
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post #18 of 402
I agree that there are only a handful of games that spread out the draw calls, AI, and real-time functions of the render to multiple cores, but this doesn't necessarily mean that games that don't do this are going to run so poorly on the FX-8350 that you have to compare it to a GT640. (No offence intended to gamers who game on the GT640.)

The FX 8350 is approximately close to a Core i5 2500K... which is still an amazing CPU in my opinion.
post #19 of 402
I think you are looking at this the wrong way.

Go like me and spend less on CPU, more on GPU, and more on monitor.

Once you break past 1080p, the CPU bottleneck is relieved massively.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8350-core-i7-3770k-gaming-bottleneck,3407-3.html

See how it all closes in? CPU performance is less important at lower resolutions. But if you're gonna spend $300 on a CPU and you're using a cheap 1080p TN panel, I don't know what to say to you. It's like buying really expensive speakers and then using it to listen to 64kbps MP3s. In my opinion, it's the biggest thing wrong with what people are doing with their builds right now. Spending $300 on GPU, $300 on CPU, and then playing on some old 1080p monitor.
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post #20 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

I think you are looking at this the wrong way.

Go like me and spend less on CPU, more on GPU, and more on monitor.

Once you break past 1080p, the CPU bottleneck is relieved massively.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8350-core-i7-3770k-gaming-bottleneck,3407-3.html

See how it all closes in? CPU performance is less important at lower resolutions. But if you're gonna spend $300 on a CPU and you're using a cheap 1080p TN panel, I don't know what to say to you. It's like buying really expensive speakers and then using it to listen to 64kbps MP3s. In my opinion, it's the biggest thing wrong with what people are doing with their builds right now. Spending $300 on GPU, $300 on CPU, and then playing on some old 1080p monitor.
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