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Questions about the FX 8350? - Page 11

post #101 of 402
I own an FX-8350, and everything that mdocod has said in this thread is absolutely true.

I'll try to put this very simply so everyone can understand.

The FX-8350 IS a good gaming processor. However, it is NOT a good value as a gaming processor for $200.

The FX-6300 / FX-6350 ($120/$140) are good gaming processors. They are also good values for the money.

A FX-6350 is very nearly as good a gaming processor as the FX-8350 in stock form, and it costs $60 less. Overclocked, the FX-6350 is actually a BETTER gaming processor than the FX-8350 because it will overclock higher and run cooler than the FX-8350 will, handily beating the 8350 in anything that uses up to 6 threads, and essentially matching it in anything that uses more than 6 threads.

A core i5 is a great gaming processor. It is also a good value for the money.

For gaming, buy a FX-63xx or buy an i5. That is where the value is. The FX-8350 is a 'good' gaming processor, yes, but it is a poor value for the money.
Edited by synge - 4/28/14 at 8:13am
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post #102 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Do you play any game at 1024 X 768?

doh.gif You are not listening.

Nothing to do with listening, you edited your post , see above quote.

I suspect your answer would be no.

I don't see much value in benchmarks at settings no one uses, that's my point.

The 1080 chart that you posted is more relevant , certainly, however it has no 8350 for reference but includes a 2500k with a 20% overclock above base frequency. It annoys me when sites show a chart that lends and advantage to one over the other or as with the case of many of them, chooses not to show one at their strength ( how many of those charts show a FX - 9XXX?).

The closest thing on the chart to the 8350 is an 8120, running at 3.1 ghz base frequency and having at least a handicap in performance by nature of it's Bulldozer design. If the bench scales with clockspeed the ( cpu limited, so it should do so , yes? ) 8350 would narrow that gap by 30% with that difference alone. Add in the Vishera's improvement over the Bulldozer and where would we be?
The 8350 is what the op was interested in.

So often I hear about how unplayable these handful of poorly coded games play on AMD, then fire them up on my rig only to find out the difference isn't discernible or is only slightly less crappy on an Intel.

Also the benchmarking environment is different than what the typical rig is asked to do on a given day. The more processes , services and applications you have running in the background the harder it is for a 4 threaded machine to cope.

At 4.7 ghz on the vish - Planetside 2 100FPS / WOT is virtually the same as my 2600k / Skyrim maxxed out averages 58FPS with vsync enabled etc. etc. It's never as glaring as some would lead me to believe.
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post #103 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post


I don't see much value in benchmarks at settings no one uses, that's my point.

Bench-marking at a setting BELOW what everyone uses means that it is already showing the best case scenario for the thing being tested (cpu performance, in this case), which means that it DOES encompass and effect the performance of EVERY resolution above that point.
Quote:
The closest thing on the chart to the 8350 is an 8120, running at 3.1 ghz base frequency and having at least a handicap in performance by nature of it's Bulldozer design.

By the same standard, it's a 2 generation old Intel chip there as well, so it's not like there's anything unfair going on, that's what was shipping when that test was performed.
Quote:
If the bench scales with clockspeed the ( cpu limited, so it should do so , yes? ) 8350 would narrow that gap by 30% with that difference alone. Add in the Vishera's improvement over the Bulldozer and where would we be?

There's actually only a 5% difference in clock speed between the FX-8120 and the FX-8350 in this game, as either CPU would run at turbo speeds with only 2 highly active threads.

Here's a more recent bench "revisited:"



The results make sense, as we tended to get ~15% improvement from PD over BD all other things being equal, add 5% clock speeds, and that's 18FPS vs 15FPS. Both results are basically a slideshow. Overclock PD to 5ghz and performance tune the CPU-NB and system memory and it will be ~24FPS minimums (extrapolated) in this same benchmark. Meanwhile, if we extrapolate the performance of a tuned i5-4670K @ 4.5ghz (with overclocked system memory), it would be ~38FPS minimums in this same benchmark.

38FPS vs 24FPS is pretty noticeable to most gamers.
Quote:
So often I hear about how unplayable these handful of poorly coded games play on AMD, then fire them up on my rig only to find out the difference isn't discernible or is only slightly less crappy on an Intel.
Most people are perfectly happy with the performance of their FX-83XX in games. Unfortunately, for every few people who are satisfied, there is one who isn't. You fall into that group that isn't up against the performance limitations and/or isn't bothered by them, and therefor, have a subjectively positive experience. Meanwhile, there are those who run into those performance limitations, and who are bothered by them. The "safe bet" is to just go with the i5 for gaming purposes, rather than take the gamble on the FX, because at least on the i5, if someone still isn't happy with the performance, then at least it isn't because they screwed up their CPU choice, because they are basically at the end of the road for gaming performance at that point anyway.
Quote:
Also the benchmarking environment is different than what the typical rig is asked to do on a given day. The more processes , services and applications you have running in the background the harder it is for a 4 threaded machine to cope.

This is a misconception. Funneling those jobs down onto fewer faster "cores" does not somehow cause a reduction in compute performance compared to spreading those jobs around onto more slower cores. In fact, the opposite is typically true. The more cores, the more wasted overhead as the software side scheduling has that much more to monitor. Numerous review sites have created conditions to replicate "background tasks" like screen capturing, while running a gaming benchmark to see which CPUs handle it the best. The only case where the FX-8350 winds up winning such a competition is when it is unfairly pitted against something like an i3, which has half the execution resources (and a price to match). When compared fairly against the i5-4670K, the i5 consistently handles the gaming workload with the background tasks with better minimum FPS.
     
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post #104 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post




When I first saw this multiplayer bench of SCII I was in disbelief, but it truly seems this game is a huge turd when it comes to optimization. Intel performs a good 30-40% better here and still we are talking 8 vs 12 average fps.
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post #105 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post


I don't see much value in benchmarks at settings no one uses, that's my point.

Bench-marking at a setting BELOW what everyone uses means that it is already showing the best case scenario for the thing being tested (cpu performance, in this case), which means that it DOES encompass and effect the performance of EVERY resolution above that point.
Quote:
The closest thing on the chart to the 8350 is an 8120, running at 3.1 ghz base frequency and having at least a handicap in performance by nature of it's Bulldozer design.

By the same standard, it's a 2 generation old Intel chip there as well, so it's not like there's anything unfair going on, that's what was shipping when that test was performed.
Quote:
If the bench scales with clockspeed the ( cpu limited, so it should do so , yes? ) 8350 would narrow that gap by 30% with that difference alone. Add in the Vishera's improvement over the Bulldozer and where would we be?

There's actually only a 5% difference in clock speed between the FX-8120 and the FX-8350 in this game, as either CPU would run at turbo speeds with only 2 highly active threads.

Here's a more recent bench "revisited:"



The results make sense, as we tended to get ~15% improvement from PD over BD all other things being equal, add 5% clock speeds, and that's 18FPS vs 15FPS. Both results are basically a slideshow. Overclock PD to 5ghz and performance tune the CPU-NB and system memory and it will be ~24FPS minimums (extrapolated) in this same benchmark. Meanwhile, if we extrapolate the performance of a tuned i5-4670K @ 4.5ghz (with overclocked system memory), it would be ~38FPS minimums in this same benchmark.

38FPS vs 24FPS is pretty noticeable to most gamers.
Quote:
So often I hear about how unplayable these handful of poorly coded games play on AMD, then fire them up on my rig only to find out the difference isn't discernible or is only slightly less crappy on an Intel.
Most people are perfectly happy with the performance of their FX-83XX in games. Unfortunately, for every few people who are satisfied, there is one who isn't. You fall into that group that isn't up against the performance limitations and/or isn't bothered by them, and therefor, have a subjectively positive experience. Meanwhile, there are those who run into those performance limitations, and who are bothered by them. The "safe bet" is to just go with the i5 for gaming purposes, rather than take the gamble on the FX, because at least on the i5, if someone still isn't happy with the performance, then at least it isn't because they screwed up their CPU choice, because they are basically at the end of the road for gaming performance at that point anyway.
Quote:
Also the benchmarking environment is different than what the typical rig is asked to do on a given day. The more processes , services and applications you have running in the background the harder it is for a 4 threaded machine to cope.

This is a misconception. Funneling those jobs down onto fewer faster "cores" does not somehow cause a reduction in compute performance compared to spreading those jobs around onto more slower cores. In fact, the opposite is typically true. The more cores, the more wasted overhead as the software side scheduling has that much more to monitor. Numerous review sites have created conditions to replicate "background tasks" like screen capturing, while running a gaming benchmark to see which CPUs handle it the best. The only case where the FX-8350 winds up winning such a competition is when it is unfairly pitted against something like an i3, which has half the execution resources (and a price to match). When compared fairly against the i5-4670K, the i5 consistently handles the gaming workload with the background tasks with better minimum FPS.

Minimum FPS measurements can be very misleading as it only has to be present at one sample point. It may or may not affect gaming satisfaction depending the duration of the event and when it occurs.

If it is a misconception, why is it that the 8 core vishera's handle everyday tasks so nimbly compared to my 4 and 6 core processors ( or intel 4 core 8 thread ) that have equal or higher IPC?
There is an advantage there and overclocking the other chips doesn't erase that advantage, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the speed of an individual core .
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post #106 of 402
I have read 2 pages and i dont see any question of:

Are you going to be playing any unreal engine games?

If the anser is yes go intel

If the answer is no then get a 8320 ( save the money) get a better mobo and GPU.

I have the 8350 on a UD7 and love it.

there is a few good things that was said Like:
Quote:
In games with good multi threading the FX-8350 and 4670k are pretty equal but in poorly threaded games the 4670k will obviously do better. Hence the 4670k is generally regarded as the superior gaming chip of the two.

very well said but this is one of those type of things DO YOU NEED CORES?
well in the past the question was do you need 4 gig of ram? then it became do you need 8 gig of ram? hell if i start a rig my starting point for ram is 16 gig.

Now back to your question is the cpu any good. YES it is
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post #107 of 402
For me, I game at 1920x1080 and my 8350 cpu and it has performed admirably with no overclock. I pretty much maintain 60fps in all games (I know that this also has to do with the GPU, but I feel that the 8350 handles games just fine).

The only real problem that I have had and have been bugged by is not maintaining 60fps in Saints Row 4. I get about 35-50 and it bugssss me haha.

Not sure if it's cpu, gpu, or poor game optimization driven for SR4.

If someone could shed some light on that for me I would greatly appreciate it lol.
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post #108 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzle Dazzle View Post

For me, I game at 1920x1080 and my 8350 cpu and it has performed admirably with no overclock. I pretty much maintain 60fps in all games (I know that this also has to do with the GPU, but I feel that the 8350 handles games just fine).

The only real problem that I have had and have been bugged by is not maintaining 60fps in Saints Row 4. I get about 35-50 and it bugssss me haha.

Not sure if it's cpu, gpu, or poor game optimization driven for SR4.

If someone could shed some light on that for me I would greatly appreciate it lol.

I do not play this game so I just took a look at these graphs.





First one indicates that PD performs poorly here when compared to intel. Second one provides some explanation- the game engine instead of spreading the load across modules,it saturates 2 modules in particular,therefore triggering the CMT performance penalty on vishera- the equivalent in intel terms would be instead of spreading load across all cores of a quad i7 to use only a pair + hyperthreading across 4 threads. Try to set core affinity in a way that forces the game to use only 1 core per module and see if it does any better.
Edited by Kuivamaa - 4/28/14 at 10:16am
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post #109 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by synge View Post

I own an FX-8350, and everything that mdocod has said in this thread is absolutely true.

I'll try to put this very simply so everyone can understand.

The FX-8350 IS a good gaming processor. However, it is NOT a good value as a gaming processor for $200.

The FX-6300 / FX-6350 ($120/$140) are good gaming processors. They are also good values for the money.

A FX-6350 is very nearly as good a gaming processor as the FX-8350 in stock form, and it costs $60 less. Overclocked, the FX-6350 is actually a BETTER gaming processor than the FX-8350 because it will overclock higher and run cooler than the FX-8350 will, handily beating the 8350 in anything that uses up to 6 threads, and essentially matching it in anything that uses more than 6 threads.

A core i5 is a great gaming processor. It is also a good value for the money.

For gaming, buy a FX-63xx or buy an i5. That is where the value is. The FX-8350 is a 'good' gaming processor, yes, but it is a poor value for the money.

This has been said plenty of times in this thread, but noone seems to notice it...

It is well known that there are still plenty of games that thrive off single thread performance, and besides the 4670k is basically as good as the 8350 when using all cores, so since the i5 is cheaper to implement there is not point in going with the FX.

The 6300 is a much better choice, as it is quite cheap, but still performs similarly to the 83xx in single threads.
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post #110 of 402
Just downloaded SC2's free edition , all settings maxxed out 1920 X1200 averaged 94 fps on the first go around. Total cpu use was around 30 % and it looked like it only uses a single core. One core's use was around 80% , the others were very low. GPU use was at around 80%.

That was single player campaign mode, I will dabble with the multiplayer later.
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