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Questions about the FX 8350? - Page 5

post #41 of 402
An 8350, like any CPU over $100, is perfectly fine for gaming. The MB should be chosen depending on if you want a serious overclock or not, and idk how temps are on an 8350 but my 9370 (same architecture as 8350) runs at room temp under load with an h80i at stock (4.4Ghz) and within safe temps (40C-60C) at 5.2Ghz
Edited by Tyrannocanis - 4/22/14 at 2:53am
post #42 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason387 View Post

Nice read. Looks like the CPU only matters at lower resolutions. My native resolution is 1366x768.

The "only matters at low resolutions" is only true in bench-marking conditions that have purposely used a low resolution to lift the bottleneck off of the GPU in order to reveal the difference in CPU performance. Often these benchmarks wind up taking place at insanely high FPS that would be far beyond the goal for smooth gameplay, so the CPU in those cases actually DOESN'T matter because the FPS is already far past the refresh of the monitor anyway.

In real-conditions. with difficult to re-create and repeat scenarios (high unit count, high player count, high AI load, especially in multi-player games, MMOs, strategy games, etc), the CPU can be a bottleneck that IS meaningful at ANY resolution in many game titles. If FPS dips below the desired level for smooth game-play at a low resolution, and that dip was caused by a CPU bottleneck, increasing resolution will never "solve" that problem, it will just lower the peak FPS, the minimums caused by the CPU will still be there.

Increasing resolution just shifts the bottleneck off the CPU, this doesn't mean more performance, it means better visual quality.
Edited by mdocod - 4/22/14 at 4:38am
     
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post #43 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason387 View Post

Nice read. Looks like the CPU only matters at lower resolutions. My native resolution is 1366x768.

This is a really nasty misconception as it varies by game engine dramatically....

The "only matters at low resolutions" is only true in bench-marking conditions that have purposely used a low resolution to lift the bottleneck off of the GPU in order to reveal the difference in CPU performance. Often these benchmarks wind up taking place at insanely high FPS that would be far beyond the goal for smooth gameplay, so the CPU in those cases actually DOESN'T matter because the FPS is already far past the refresh of the monitor anyway.

In real-conditions. with difficult to re-create and repeat scenarios (high unit count, high player count, high AI load), the CPU can be a bottleneck that IS meaningful at ANY resolution in many game titles...

Next time you're thinking to yourself that the CPU only matters at low resolution, counter that consideration with the following question: Will raising the resolution increase or decrease FPS?

Games that are generally CPU limited by FX are going to be somewhat limited on Intel as well. It doesn't matter what you have for a CPU or how far you've overclocked it in Starcraft 2, a huge battle will bring you into 20fps.

The issue I've had with my FX that bothered me slightly was Far Cry 3 not scaling to all cores in some areas (like when you're swimming to an island and there's nothing near you). It'd just load one thread and run at like 15fps. It only happened rarely though.

I play SC2 and stuff on it just fine. In fact, my 5gh FX 8350 does better in SC2 than my 4ghz Core i7 920 did.

So really, I do kind of feel it's a moot point. You might not be getting the best possible performance 100% of the time with FX, but you go from very competitive to not so competitive for a lot less money (at least on the CPU).

I usually tell people to look at what games they're going to play and decide from there, but to be honest, single core happy games have become very rare (theif comes to mind) so it's becoming much better environment for FX CPUs, at least ones with 3m/6c or more.
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post #44 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Games that are generally CPU limited by FX are going to be somewhat limited on Intel as well. It doesn't matter what you have for a CPU or how far you've overclocked it in Starcraft 2, a huge battle will bring you into 20fps.

If it's 20FPS on FX, it's 36FPS on haswell. (clock for clock) There is a difference.
Quote:
The issue I've had with my FX that bothered me slightly was Far Cry 3 not scaling to all cores in some areas (like when you're swimming to an island and there's nothing near you). It'd just load one thread and run at like 15fps. It only happened rarely though.

I play SC2 and stuff on it just fine. In fact, my 5gh FX 8350 does better in SC2 than my 4ghz Core i7 920 did.

Yea, bulldozer was originally designed to compete with nahalem, PD is it's successor, it should perform slightly better. The problem is that this isn't 2009. Intel has had 2 architecture revisions and 2 die shrinks since Nahalem. AMD is selling a product today that was suited to compete with gulftown. AMD desperately needs to work on their core architecture if they want to compete on the desktop.
Quote:
So really, I do kind of feel it's a moot point. You might not be getting the best possible performance 100% of the time with FX, but you go from very competitive to not so competitive for a lot less money (at least on the CPU).

It's not a lot less money. The FX-8350 sells for $180-200, the i5-4570K sells for $210-240. The difference in price is a total wash after considering the total cost to implement. If overclocking, the PSU on the FX system has to be sized 150-200W larger, and the HSF will often have to be twice as expensive. That actually tends to lean favor to the i5 in terms of gaming performance value. I don't know of any game that runs better on an FX-8350@5GHZ than it will on an i5-4670K@4.5GHZ. On the other hand, we can list many games that will run better on the i5-4670K@4.5GHZ than on the FX-8350@5GHZ.
Quote:
I usually tell people to look at what games they're going to play and decide from there, but to be honest, single core happy games have become very rare (theif comes to mind) so it's becoming much better environment for FX CPUs, at least ones with 3m/6c or more.

We can count on our fingers the number of games that actually scale beyond 4 cores well. EVERYTHING else falls into the category of lightly threaded, and performs better on an i5 than it does on the FX chips. In those few games that we "can" list that use 6-8+ threads effectively, the i5-4670K performs on par with the FX-8350, so why choose the more expensive to implement CPU that performs worse all things considered? There's no game out there that runs better on an FX-8350 than it does on an i5-4670K. There are plenty where it is the same, but in the games where there is a difference, that difference can be as wide as 80% depending on clock speeds.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Aonex View Post

Lol didn't take long for this to turn into an i5 vs FX discussion.

What makes the FX-8350 a bad CPU for gaming, is the existence of the i5. If we pretend like the i5 doesn't exist, then the FX-8350 is a wonderful gaming CPU wink.gif I can't come up with any useful or honest way to answer the question "is the FX-8350 a good gaming CPU?" without comparing it and contrasting it to the CPU it is competing with.
Edited by mdocod - 4/22/14 at 5:34am
     
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post #45 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post


What makes the FX-8350 a bad CPU for gaming, is the existence of the i5. If we pretend like the i5 doesn't exist, then the FX-8350 is a wonderful gaming CPU wink.gif I can't come up with any useful or honest way to answer the question "is the FX-8350 a good gaming CPU?" without comparing it and contrasting it to the CPU it is competing with.


Okay here is where a lot of people are getting on my nerves; Just because something isn't the BEST available option doesn't mean it's completely worthless. Is a pen and paper "worse" for writing than a typewriter? It might be a little slower or less efficient, but it certainly gets the job done without a problem. and anyway asking if a cpu is good for gaming is like asking if a car is good for driving. Anything half decent will do what you need it to with ease.
Edited by Tyrannocanis - 4/22/14 at 2:01pm
post #46 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

What makes the FX-8350 a bad CPU for gaming, is the existence of the i5. If we pretend like the i5 doesn't exist, then the FX-8350 is a wonderful gaming CPU wink.gif I can't come up with any useful or honest way to answer the question "is the FX-8350 a good gaming CPU?" without comparing it and contrasting it to the CPU it is competing with.

That's some strange logic you got going there... and here I thought the basis for judging whether or not a CPU is good for gaming is its performance in games. biggrin.gif But yeah, personally, I'd pick up an FX-6300.
Edited by Aonex - 4/22/14 at 3:06pm
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post #47 of 402
There's nothing wrong with the logic. Worst in class performance isn't "good" by any normal standard. If AMD drops the price of the FX-8350 to compete in a different class then that changes the answer to this question.


http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/the-17-worst-cars-you-can-buy.html

Notice how in many explanations of WHY the car they have chosen is the "worst in class" involves comparing and contrasting them to alternative products. The rest of the "world" is more than happy to compare and contrast products. Why is it, that here on the AMD sub-forum on our little corner of the inter-webs, there are a handful of people out to "silence" or generally dismiss and or cover up any negative points regarding AMD CPUs? Seems very suspect to me.

The FX-8350 is the "worst gaming CPU @ ~$200" IMO. Am I just supposed to say that and expect that it will be embraced as true, or give reasons for why I believe this to be the case?
Edited by mdocod - 4/22/14 at 5:41pm
     
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post #48 of 402
But you're answering a different question, one the OP did not ask.
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post #49 of 402
OP: The FX-8350 is a BAD gaming CPU. You're not allowed to know why I think this because you did not ask.


Yea, this is really effin logical.
     
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post #50 of 402
Yup, your explanation was missing charts that showed it perform poorly in games. biggrin.gif

Anyway, before this goes any further, yes I agree there are better options out there, either the 6300 in the lower $100s, or the 4670K around $200... but that doesn't make the 8350 a bad gaming CPU "by definition."
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M1
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i3-4160 MSI Z97I AC EVGA GTX 750TI Superclocked Corsair Dominator Platinum 8GB 2400 
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XFX XTR 550W NCase M1 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD A10-7850K Gigabyte F2A88XN-WIFI Radeon R7 G.Skill RipjawsX 8GB 2400 
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OCZ Vertex 460 240GB Silverstone Argon AR05 Windows 10 Antec ISK 110 
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Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD CPUs › Questions about the FX 8350?