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[C|NET] AMD takes exception to Intel's tablet rebates - Page 11

post #101 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exilon View Post

"Waaah too much competition!"

O.o? How so? I mean Intel produces so many processors that Newegg still has 5 year old Intel processors available in their store. Half their laptops have processors older than that. It's not that no one is buying, it's that there is so much that not everyone can buy. I'm pretty sure more landfilled computers contain Intel processors than anything between. I rather there be fewer processors and we barter causing price inflation than there be too many making it a waste.
Edited by SpeedyVT - 4/20/14 at 3:44pm
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post #102 of 135
again.

there is nothing wrong with intel giving their chips away. there wasn't anything wrong with it back in the p4 days if all they did was give their chips away.

However; intel didn't just give away millions of p4s for free. they gave them away with strings attached. The OEM could only get those millions of chips for free if 90% of their computers sold with an intel chip in them. THAT was the illegal practice back in the day. As long as these atom/baytrail chips are given away free of strings there is nothing wrong with that. However, if they are only given away with similar strings to those they used back in 2000-2006.... then there is a problem.

and i can't blame AMD for being alarmed by an Intel rebate. Considering it was an Intel rebate that singlehandedly put them in the situation they're in now. It might be nothing, clearly the AMD spokesman had no details about the rebates so he was probably just shooting from the hip... but i don't think we can really blame AMD on this point.

Furthermore as consumers and enthusiasts this should raise caution flags for us as well. Intel got away with their last anti-competitive rebate... and buried their competition in the process. This is also an earily simmilar situation to back then as well... currently intel's x86 chips are not competitive with ARM, just like the p4 was with the athlon x64. About the only thing different today from back then, is AMD never penetrated 20% of the home pc market... so Intel had a lot of market position to leverage against the OEMs. Currently x86 SOC chips from intel are a fraction of the mobile market, the only leverage they have are with OEMs like Asus who make BOTH PCs and mobile devices.

We should all watch this news closely to see how intel is operating. Cause I for one do not look forward to the mobile market becoming a one man show like the desktop market has almost become.
Edited by azanimefan - 4/20/14 at 4:23pm
 
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post #103 of 135
Let's hope x86 tablets can be reasonably priced. I want to play CS1.6 and GTA VC on a tablet. Those two will beat any Android game you can think of.
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post #104 of 135
You know, perhaps AMD should take a similar approach to their new mullins chips under the condition they go into tablets?

Or maybe for mobile Kaveri in premium laptops to get a bigger marketshare for HSA
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post #105 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

again.

there is nothing wrong with intel giving their chips away. there wasn't anything wrong with it back in the p4 days if all they did was give their chips away.

However; intel didn't just give away millions of p4s for free. they gave them away with strings attached. The OEM could only get those millions of chips for free if 90% of their computers sold with an intel chip in them. THAT was the illegal practice back in the day. As long as these atom/baytrail chips are given away free of strings there is nothing wrong with that. However, if they are only given away with similar strings to those they used back in 2000-2006.... then there is a problem.

and i can't blame AMD for being alarmed by an Intel rebate. Considering it was an Intel rebate that singlehandedly put them in the situation they're in now. It might be nothing, clearly the AMD spokesman had no details about the rebates so he was probably just shooting from the hip... but i don't think we can really blame AMD on this point.

Furthermore as consumers and enthusiasts this should raise caution flags for us as well. Intel got away with their last anti-competitive rebate... and buried their competition in the process. This is also an earily simmilar situation to back then as well... currently intel's x86 chips are not competitive with ARM, just like the p4 was with the athlon x64. About the only thing different today from back then, is AMD never penetrated 20% of the home pc market... so Intel had a lot of market position to leverage against the OEMs. Currently x86 SOC chips from intel are a fraction of the mobile market, the only leverage they have are with OEMs like Asus who make BOTH PCs and mobile devices.

We should all watch this news closely to see how intel is operating. Cause I for one do not look forward to the mobile market becoming a one man show like the desktop market has almost become.

I agree with you 210%!
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post #106 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

again.

there is nothing wrong with intel giving their chips away. there wasn't anything wrong with it back in the p4 days if all they did was give their chips away.

However; intel didn't just give away millions of p4s for free. they gave them away with strings attached. The OEM could only get those millions of chips for free if 90% of their computers sold with an intel chip in them. THAT was the illegal practice back in the day. As long as these atom/baytrail chips are given away free of strings there is nothing wrong with that. However, if they are only given away with similar strings to those they used back in 2000-2006.... then there is a problem.

and i can't blame AMD for being alarmed by an Intel rebate. Considering it was an Intel rebate that singlehandedly put them in the situation they're in now. It might be nothing, clearly the AMD spokesman had no details about the rebates so he was probably just shooting from the hip... but i don't think we can really blame AMD on this point.

Furthermore as consumers and enthusiasts this should raise caution flags for us as well. Intel got away with their last anti-competitive rebate... and buried their competition in the process. This is also an earily simmilar situation to back then as well... currently intel's x86 chips are not competitive with ARM, just like the p4 was with the athlon x64. About the only thing different today from back then, is AMD never penetrated 20% of the home pc market... so Intel had a lot of market position to leverage against the OEMs. Currently x86 SOC chips from intel are a fraction of the mobile market, the only leverage they have are with OEMs like Asus who make BOTH PCs and mobile devices.

We should all watch this news closely to see how intel is operating. Cause I for one do not look forward to the mobile market becoming a one man show like the desktop market has almost become.

I blame the consumer for this, people get too caught up on "what is the absolute best?" instead of "what actually works and meets my needs and then some?". For whatever reason people have decided to stop buying what actually does the job and have gone to buying the most expensive and powerful, even though there aren't any tangible gains when actually doing that.

An example for clarity:

Bill wants to browse the web, watch videos, check e-mail, and do his work. Instead of purchasing a lower cost AMD solution that will do all of this just fine, he goes for the more expensive Intel solution that isn't really going to do it any faster, but is more expensive.

Now people can flip out over that statement all they want and throw up synthetic benchmarks that show Intel is "better", but none of that matters, I don't care, because it doesn't translate into anything tangible in the real world!

Another great example, FX 8350 vs 3770K; time and time again in gaming it has shown that the 3770K is LOW double digit percentile faster than the FX. People run with this and scream how the 3770K just dominates the 8350 and how no one should buy the FX 8350 or anything AMD. Yet they completely ignore that the performance difference translates into maybe 8 to 10 FPS up towards the 100 FPS mark, or what have you.

What we have is a culture of people hung up on synthetic benchmarks that really have no real world meaning, and because of that they are giving one side near absolute control of the market.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 4/20/14 at 5:24pm
    
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post #107 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

again.

there is nothing wrong with intel giving their chips away. there wasn't anything wrong with it back in the p4 days if all they did was give their chips away.

If it is done to the extent of materially impacting competitors, especially if you are a dominant company in the market, then it can fall under anti-dumping or anti-competitive rules. Depending on where it is being done, of course.

EU:

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/accessing-markets/trade-defence/actions-against-imports-into-the-eu/anti-dumping/index_en.htm

http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/sell-abroad/free-competition/index_en.htm

"Prohibition 2: abuse of a dominant position

If your company has a large market share, it holds a dominant position and must take particular care not to:

charge unreasonably high prices which would exploit customers
charge unrealistically low prices which may drive competitors out of the market
discriminate between customers
force certain trading conditions on your business partners."

That all said, Intel mainly cites providing financial incentives to Chinese companies selling tablets in China as the reason for its large mobile products "contra-revenue". Which is probably why Qualcomm and Nvidia haven't said too much about it, yet. Also, it can take a long time for regulators to actually do anything about business practices that do happen to be breaking rules.
Edited by Vesku - 4/20/14 at 5:57pm
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post #108 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

You know, perhaps AMD should take a similar approach to their new mullins chips under the condition they go into tablets?

Or maybe for mobile Kaveri in premium laptops to get a bigger marketshare for HSA

I remember an interesting sidenote from the intel vs amd rebate story... did you know AMD came to those same OEMs and offered a similar rebate to the intel ones, when they discovered WHY they couldn't sell their superior product? Do you know what the OEMs said? "Sorry, but if we do that we lose all the free intel chips. And we make more money on intel systems then we do AMD systems, and intel is a known brand... it would COST US too much money to give up this deal from Intel"

That's right. AMD tried to give away millions of athlon x64 cpus in an attempt to penetrate the market, but the OEMs turned them down because the intel name was worth $$ on the sticker of a product. They could charge more for inferior intel products, and they didn't want to market the AMD product, cause intel was pouring billions into expanding their brand name.

If all intel is doing is giving away cpus, no strings attached then perhaps amd should look at giving away some of it's chips. However, we must remember, AMD is in the RED not Black... this is a company millions in the hole every quarter. Intel is not. they can afford to give away millions of cpus. Intel also has a better name brand, and if intel stuck any conditions on those free chips, it is unlikely any attempt by AMD to do the same will help in any way at all.
 
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post #109 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesku View Post

If it is done to the extent of materially impacting competitors, especially if you are a dominant company in the market, then it can fall under anti-dumping or anti-competitive rules. Depending on where it is being done, of course.

EU:

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/accessing-markets/trade-defence/actions-against-imports-into-the-eu/anti-dumping/index_en.htm

http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/sell-abroad/free-competition/index_en.htm

"Prohibition 2: abuse of a dominant position

If your company has a large market share, it holds a dominant position and must take particular care not to:

charge unreasonably high prices which would exploit customers
charge unrealistically low prices which may drive competitors out of the market
discriminate between customers
force certain trading conditions on your business partners."

That all said, Intel mainly cites providing financial incentives to Chinese companies selling tablets in China as the reason for its large mobile products "contra-revenue". Which is probably why Qualcomm and Nvidia haven't said too much about it, yet. Also, it can take a long time for regulators to actually do anything about business practices that do happen to be breaking rules.

Did you read the rest of his post? He explains clearly why what Intel were doing was bad.
Quote:
However; intel didn't just give away millions of p4s for free. they gave them away with strings attached. The OEM could only get those millions of chips for free if 90% of their computers sold with an intel chip in them. THAT was the illegal practice back in the day. As long as these atom/baytrail chips are given away free of strings there is nothing wrong with that. However, if they are only given away with similar strings to those they used back in 2000-2006.... then there is a problem.
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post #110 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Did you read the rest of his post? He explains clearly why what Intel were doing was bad.

Yes I did, did you miss that I was showing how even without any strings it can be illegal depending on the jurisdiction?
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