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[C|NET] AMD takes exception to Intel's tablet rebates - Page 13

post #121 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

Honestly, after taking a look at some Temash product reviews. AMD would probably wasting its time. They're all terrible as far as I can see. Incredibly high variance in power consumption (a device with an A4-1200 consuming as much power as a device with an 16-1450? A laptop that idles at 4~6W and consumes 13W at absolute max load consumes 7~8W while going through a web browsing benchmark?), quality of the keyboard, screen, etc. all seem to be subpar, and prices aren't great either.

I really don't understand why they put out subpar devices. For that matter I don't understand why AMD even leaves everything up to the OEMs. It's pretty clear they're incompetent in their carelessness when it comes to designing devices based around AMD parts. AMD should take some initiative and partner up with an OEM to manufacture their reference tablets instead of just touting the design at conventions.

Intel uses a different wattage thermal design system to AMD. Intel uses SDP and AMD uses TDP. Although AMD processors are about what you say in TDP their SDP is much smaller and closer to Intel's. Now it isn't always about the processors as it's also about the batteries used too, some batteries drain more quicker because they are designed to sustain more wattage per mwh than others. If they are using batteries intended for notebooks in the tablet intended for more power draw it's just wasted consumption not being obtained by the whole tablet itself. The theoretics in benchmarks at lower clocks are so close and relative to Intel it really doesn't matter which one you go, but AMD does have the better graphics for a tablet and under a tablet with native Windows 8.1 the AMD would be better. The power consumption where you're getting the review is whole system power the whole system is consuming that much, just a bad choice in screen can be wasted power. I've seen enough equally bad consuming AMD and Intel shelved devices that my opinions are mixed. You've got to be a smart consumer these days, walk into your local store with devices on the shelf to test, give them a whirl before you go home and purchase.
Edited by SpeedyVT - 4/21/14 at 5:46am
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post #122 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post


I blame the consumer for this, people get too caught up on "what is the absolute best?" instead of "what actually works and meets my needs and then some?". For whatever reason people have decided to stop buying what actually does the job and have gone to buying the most expensive and powerful, even though there aren't any tangible gains when actually doing that.

 

It's more like 'Oooh Intel's 4970X is the fastest desktop chip! That must mean any Intel chip is faster than any AMD chip.'

 

That's what the average Joe thinks. Years of bad press on AMD haven't helped either. My brain hurts from all the BS I've heard in my years as a repairs technician.

   
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post #123 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

It's more like 'Oooh Intel's 4970X is the fastest desktop chip! That must mean any Intel chip is faster than any AMD chip.'

That's what the average Joe thinks. Years of bad press on AMD haven't helped either. My brain hurts from all the BS I've heard in my years as a repairs technician.

My father's business services both AMD and Intel depending on client needs. However AMD has provided an affordable cost effective processor for his business for many years that his clients have never had trouble with. Fewer returns and fewer break downs, although that hurts his bottom line at least his clients are coming back to keep getting other stuff.
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post #124 of 135
Look at all the AMD apologists coming out in droves. Once AMD has the performance crown I will use them.
 
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post #125 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

I remember an interesting sidenote from the intel vs amd rebate story... did you know AMD came to those same OEMs and offered a similar rebate to the intel ones, when they discovered WHY they couldn't sell their superior product? Do you know what the OEMs said? "Sorry, but if we do that we lose all the free intel chips. And we make more money on intel systems then we do AMD systems, and intel is a known brand... it would COST US too much money to give up this deal from Intel"

That's right. AMD tried to give away millions of athlon x64 cpus in an attempt to penetrate the market, but the OEMs turned them down because the intel name was worth $$ on the sticker of a product. They could charge more for inferior intel products, and they didn't want to market the AMD product, cause intel was pouring billions into expanding their brand name.

If all intel is doing is giving away cpus, no strings attached then perhaps amd should look at giving away some of it's chips. However, we must remember, AMD is in the RED not Black... this is a company millions in the hole every quarter. Intel is not. they can afford to give away millions of cpus. Intel also has a better name brand, and if intel stuck any conditions on those free chips, it is unlikely any attempt by AMD to do the same will help in any way at all.

Honestly, after taking a look at some Temash product reviews. AMD would probably wasting its time. They're all terrible as far as I can see. Incredibly high variance in power consumption (a device with an A4-1200 consuming as much power as a device with an 16-1450? A laptop that idles at 4~6W and consumes 13W at absolute max load consumes 7~8W while going through a web browsing benchmark?), quality of the keyboard, screen, etc. all seem to be subpar, and prices aren't great either.

I really don't understand why they put out subpar devices. For that matter I don't understand why AMD even leaves everything up to the OEMs. It's pretty clear they're incompetent in their carelessness when it comes to designing devices based around AMD parts. AMD should take some initiative and partner up with an OEM to manufacture their reference tablets instead of just touting the design at conventions.

I don't know what to say to you. I am using A4-5000 laptop and it's powerful enough to do some light gaming and if I really stretch it I can get 7 or 8 hours of battery life.

Intel doesn't have anything that can get close. Atom is close in CPU performance but the GPU is miles away.

The problem is that Temash level x86 CPU isn't working for anyone. No OEMs want them. Intel can't even give them away and people still don't want them. And you're barely seeing any design wins with them.

But giving them away is bad. I've already talked about it before, but it's basically something a large company does when they have a vastly inferior product when it's the only thing they can do. It's completely anti-competitive because it lowers the value of competitor's chips (why use Temash for $15 when you can get Intel for free?) and it harms competitors.

You see, the problem is that since free Intel chips is more lucrative than cheap AMD chips, AMD isn't going to get the few x86 tablet customers they would have gotten. Which means no reason for them to continue Temash, and no reason to invest in something better.

I do find it curious you're upset with Jaguar though. I'm using one right now. It plays LoL on Medium and a bunch of other lighter games and if I stretch it, I get 8 hours of battery life. All for a little over $500 in an 11.6 chassis.

When Beema and Mullins show up, AMD is going to be far ahead of Intel in CPU and GPU will be a slaughter. The HD 8330 is already faster than HD4000 graphics according to notebookcheck.

The chip is great. It should be going in $249 to $750 small notebooks and ultra-book copies. Intel doesn't have anything with this level of performance at this wattage. I haven't put the Kill-A-Watt to it yet, but the lenovo power manager quotes the system as using around 15w (for everything, including screen) often. I'll look into it later.

But I am extremely happy with this laptop (Thinkpad x140e). Jaguar is great if it's got 4 cores and HD 8330.
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post #126 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

I don't know what to say to you. I am using A4-5000 laptop and it's powerful enough to do some light gaming and if I really stretch it I can get 7 or 8 hours of battery life.

Intel doesn't have anything that can get close. Atom is close in CPU performance but the GPU is miles away.

The problem is that Temash level x86 CPU isn't working for anyone. No OEMs want them. Intel can't even give them away and people still don't want them. And you're barely seeing any design wins with them.

But giving them away is bad. I've already talked about it before, but it's basically something a large company does when they have a vastly inferior product when it's the only thing they can do. It's completely anti-competitive because it lowers the value of competitor's chips (why use Temash for $15 when you can get Intel for free?) and it harms competitors.

You see, the problem is that since free Intel chips is more lucrative than cheap AMD chips, AMD isn't going to get the few x86 tablet customers they would have gotten. Which means no reason for them to continue Temash, and no reason to invest in something better.

I do find it curious you're upset with Jaguar though. I'm using one right now. It plays LoL on Medium and a bunch of other lighter games and if I stretch it, I get 8 hours of battery life. All for a little over $500 in an 11.6 chassis.

When Beema and Mullins show up, AMD is going to be far ahead of Intel in CPU and GPU will be a slaughter. The HD 8330 is already faster than HD4000 graphics according to notebookcheck.

The chip is great. It should be going in $249 to $750 small notebooks and ultra-book copies. Intel doesn't have anything with this level of performance at this wattage. I haven't put the Kill-A-Watt to it yet, but the lenovo power manager quotes the system as using around 15w (for everything, including screen) often. I'll look into it later.

But I am extremely happy with this laptop (Thinkpad x140e). Jaguar is great if it's got 4 cores and HD 8330.

I was planning to get that SoC (A4-5000), I decided to buy a refurbished A8-5545m 14" notebook. I get two-three hours playing games. I removed the CD-Rom drive and installed an HDD Caddy. 1 250 gb SSD and 1 750gb HDD. My screen sips a lot, but oh well.

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post #127 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

snip

I'm not even sure why you think I have a problem with Jaguar. I do have a problem with the devices Jaguar is going into though.

For example.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Asus-F102BA-DF047H-Netbook.108428.0.html
An A4-1200 based device that consumes as much power as an A6-1450 based device
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Samsung-ATIV-Book-9-Lite-905S3G-K01DE-Subnotebook.106346.0.html

And the battery life is just poor all around compared to baytrail devices with similar battery capacities. And it seems like most devices are like this.
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post #128 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLAWNOOB View Post

Let's hope x86 tablets can be reasonably priced. I want to play CS1.6 and GTA VC on a tablet. Those two will beat any Android game you can think of.

You can already play those games on any Bay Trail tablet, and there are several options which are UNDER $200 on sale, like the Dell Venue 8 Pro. That's cheaper than the cost of a Nexus 7. Even when they're not on sale, the normal price is in the low $200 range, which is far from expensive compared to an iPad. So I'm not sure why you "hope" that x86 tablets are reasonably priced...because they already are very reasonably priced.

Bay Trail's GPU is essentially 1/4 of the HD4000 in a 3770K, and is powerful enough to play Counter Strike Source. I know because I own a Bay Trail tablet and have personally tried. So GTA VC and CS 1.6 are no problem at all on any Bay Trail tablet.

Heck, you can even run Dirt 2 on a Bay Trail tablet like the Venue 8 Pro.


Half life 2 on the Transformer T100 (also Bay Trail Atom based):
Not to mention that Bay Trail tablets can all get nearly 10 hours of battery life (or more, in some cases).
Edited by 996gt2 - 4/21/14 at 9:28am
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post #129 of 135

How would you play a shooter in these tablet? single USB receiver mouse/keyboard combo?

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INTEL Core i7 6700K ASUS Maximus VIII Hero Z170 MSI Geforce GTX 980 Ti Gaming 6G G.SKILL Ripjaws 4 series 16GB DDR4 3000 
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SAMSUNG SM951 NVMe 512GB SAMSUNG 850 EVO 1TB COOLER MASTER Nepton 280L MICROSOFT Windows 10 Pro x64 
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BENQ XL2420TE DELL UltraSharp U2415 WASD V2 custom CORSAIR HX850i 
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LED Lighting 
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Intel Core i5 4300U Microsoft Surface Intel HD Graphics 4400 8 GB DDR3L 
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post #130 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8 View Post

How would you play a shooter in these tablet? single USB receiver mouse/keyboard combo?

Personally, I have a bluetooth mouse + keyboard for my Bay Trail tablet, but there are several options:

  • Bluetooth mouse/keyboard
  • Unifying receiver (1 receiver) for mouse + keyboard
  • USB hub
5 GHz SFF Box
(18 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7-2700K @ 5.0 GHz, 1.38V Asus Maximus IV GENE Asus GTX 670 DC II 4x4GB Samsung 30nm @ DDR3-2133 9-9-9-21 1.5V 
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Plextor M3 SSD WD Velociraptor 500GB WD Caviar Black 1TB WD Caviar Green 2TB 
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Thermalright HR-02 (GT AP-15 Push/Pull) Windows 7 Pro x64 LG 27" 2560x1440 S-IPS (Calibrated with Eye-One) CM Quickfire Rapid 
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Seasonic X-750 Silverstone SG09 Logitech MX518 Steelseries QcK 
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Asus Xonar DX + Shure SRH840 
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Core i5-3570K Gigabyte H61N-USB3 Mini-ITX 2x4GB Samsung 30nm DDR3 Samsung 830 128GB SSD 
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WD Scorpio Blue 500GB Win 7 Pro x64 Antec 90W DC-DC/Delta power brick Antec ISK 110 
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5 GHz SFF Box
(18 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7-2700K @ 5.0 GHz, 1.38V Asus Maximus IV GENE Asus GTX 670 DC II 4x4GB Samsung 30nm @ DDR3-2133 9-9-9-21 1.5V 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Plextor M3 SSD WD Velociraptor 500GB WD Caviar Black 1TB WD Caviar Green 2TB 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermalright HR-02 (GT AP-15 Push/Pull) Windows 7 Pro x64 LG 27" 2560x1440 S-IPS (Calibrated with Eye-One) CM Quickfire Rapid 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-750 Silverstone SG09 Logitech MX518 Steelseries QcK 
Audio
Asus Xonar DX + Shure SRH840 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Core i5-3570K Gigabyte H61N-USB3 Mini-ITX 2x4GB Samsung 30nm DDR3 Samsung 830 128GB SSD 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
WD Scorpio Blue 500GB Win 7 Pro x64 Antec 90W DC-DC/Delta power brick Antec ISK 110 
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