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[C|NET] AMD takes exception to Intel's tablet rebates - Page 5

post #41 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

It's a loss leader for products that they don't own (with a few exceptions).

How is this a loss leader for Intel? What product does this allow them to sell at a profit?
Intel is DUMPING.
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post #42 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

Why is it ok for MS or Sony to sell at a loss but not ok for intel to do the same?
Again explain how is that the same thing with only Intel selling it's product at a loss?
post #43 of 135
AMD hasn't considered it because AMD has never been able to afford it.

And yes, using existing finances to sell your product for much cheaper than is sustainable in order to force your competitor out of the market because you can outlast them is pretty much anti-competitive behavior. Especially in a market where having majority market share = getting more market share.
Once they get through the gates, the prices will obviously go through the roof and it'll be too little too late for the competition, which is the whole point. Anti-competitive.
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post #44 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by nub View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

It's a loss leader for products that they don't own (with a few exceptions).

How is this a loss leader for Intel? What product does this allow them to sell at a profit?
Intel is DUMPING.

What products does xbox/ps allow MS/Sony sell for a profit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serios View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

Why is it ok for MS or Sony to sell at a loss but not ok for intel to do the same?
Again explain how is that the same thing with only Intel selling it's product at a loss?

company A sells a product at a loss. company B sells a product at a loss. How is that not the same thing?
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post #45 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

It is not even funny anymore the uninformed populace buying according to brand market share rather than their own incentives...

Brand market share is not the issue exactly...it is the ability of any single or collective group of businesses to shape a market in a manner that can then be used against the consumer. Intel may have the ability to do that against AMD when we consider the actual market that AMD is currently worried about...the "Windows" tablet market. Here Intel has a near complete monopoly and if they engage in dumping or full loss (Revenues < Fixed Costs) or "contra revenue" (AKA recoup revenues after gaining desired market position) activities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I definitely do when it comes to the tablet and smartphone SoC market.

x86 CPUs no obviously not, but smartphones and tablets definitely.

How exactly do you think intel is going to use their superior size, marketshare and money reserves against tiny and helpless companies like apple and samsung?

See above...this is little to do right now with AMD worrying about the pad market and more with the worry about the inevitable continuation of the Wintel tablet market. Samsung and Apple aren't involved in that market wereas AMD is and is heavily out gunned yet again.


Also, people need to keep in mind the difference between niche and general market. AMD providing to the current gen consoles is niche and that choice was made independently by each (Sony/MS) without the worry of repercussions. While it is possible that could be the case in the Windows tablet space...again the selling of a product below fixed costs as a general market practice is seen as anti-competitive for the effects it will have on a competitor. This also assumes that Intel is indeed going for full loss pricing.
     
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post #46 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I don't understand why everyone just assumes that the chips are sold at a loss (compared to manufacturing cost).

Intel shouldn't be allowed to sell 100mm^2 Bay Trail SOCs for under $40 but AMD is allowed to sell ~350-400mm^2 SOCs to MS and Sony for $60-$80?
It's not the same thing.
AMD basically won an auction and was chosen as the supply for both console makers. And we don't know if that was the price Ms and Sony asked to buy the chips for or the price that AMD suggested for it's chips.
post #47 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

company A sells a product at a loss. company B sells a product at a loss. How is that not the same thing?
Are you trying to be annoyn now??
So lets see the current situation.
Company A tries to sell a product at a loss and companies B, C, D, E, F, etc. can't do that.
Again how is this the same thing with what you said???
post #48 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by nub View Post

How is this a loss leader for Intel? What product does this allow them to sell at a profit?
Intel is DUMPING.

Except the only thing we actually know is that intel is subsidizing some of the associated platform costs for OEMs who want to use Bay Trail in order to make BT more competitive platform cost wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

AMD hasn't considered it because AMD has never been able to afford it.

And yes, using existing finances to sell your product for much cheaper than is sustainable in order to force your competitor out of the market because you can outlast them is pretty much anti-competitive behavior. Especially in a market where having majority market share = getting more market share.
Once they get through the gates, the prices will obviously go through the roof and it'll be too little too late for the competition, which is the whole point. Anti-competitive.

1) supporting OEMs with the platform cost isn't a long term thing, intel is doing it because they can't wait for the next iteration of devices with lowered platform cost. Extra (not the SoC) platform costs are making BT a bad choice for OEMs, that is what intel is trying to fix with these subsidies.

2) Intel can't force it's mobile competitors out of the market anymore than AMD can force intel out of the x86 market

3) Intel has extreme minority marketshare in mobile

4) Intel doesn't have the finances to go against big mobile companies with strategies like this. They'd lose. Badly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

What products does xbox/ps allow MS/Sony sell for a profit?
company A sells a product at a loss. company B sells a product at a loss. How is that not the same thing?

Loss leader usually refers to a strategy where you sell something at a loss in order to get customers to buy something else that you can recoup the costs with.

This isn't exactly what intel is doing but what intel is doing isn't illegal either.

And comparing platform price cuts to forbidding OEMs from using A64 is quite hilarious.
 
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post #49 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

To those of you mad about this, how do you differentiate between "good" price reductions to increase sales and "bad" price reductions to increase sales?


AMD reduces prices = ZOMG AWESOME thumb.gifthumb.gifthumb.gifthumb.gif

Intel reduces prices
= EVIL INTEL BEING MONOPOLISTIC AND ANTI-COMPETITIVE
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post #50 of 135
I feel bad for AMD, but I don't see an issue here. Intel- it would be really awesome if you were to offer rebates on consumer mini-itx baytrail systems as well.... smile.gif
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