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[VC] AMD: No 20nm GPUs this year - Page 11

post #101 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfc89 View Post

Do you guys believe this next generation of gpu's(20nm) get us to handling all the big title's in 1440p 60fps. The 780Ti and R290x is very close but not quite there. I'd love to be able to go back to a single gpu. I'm hoping 1440p is the new 1080p and the Sli/Crossfire market is intended for 4k resolutions.

My suspicion is we get only one batch of GPUs now that are max 10% better on 20nm that last only for up to 1 year and then directly to 16nm that are again ~10% better and so on.

This is mainly because 16nm will come soon after 20nm, and they overshot with the size of GK110, so 20nm must be a big/medium die. Also someone has to use 20nm to exist.

All those would cost ~600 at release +/- 100.
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post #102 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8800GT View Post

Well AMD's 290x is 20% more inefficient than the 780 ti whilst having about a 20% smaller die area. I'd say they could do better in the power department.
Indeed a much denser die and higher clocks and a horrible cooler to make consumption even worse. We had reports of people clocking down their cards to 700/800MHz and using only ~180W so I don't think they are behind in power.

Now with Maxwell's low/mid end 750 and 750ti they are making great advancements by what is discribed as a new layout and more cache but I don't think AMD is sleeping either with their GCN being in the tiny core based APUs the large core apus and their graphics and soon be in their ARM segment. GCN should allow AMD to exploit it's IP across all segments which is really good for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by firagabird View Post

14nm is 20nm with FinFETs.
You're right just re-read it it says "finfet migratable" my bad


Clearly that picture shows that compared to the previous super low power node 20nm will be smashing but I have no idea how effective it will be scaled up at low clocks. As for the increased cost they claim the cheapest 20nm node.
Quote:
20LPM (Low Power Mobility)

Leading Edge Planar Platform for Mobile & Consumer Applications

FEATURES / BENEFITS

Industry's most 20nm cost-effective, Fin-FETmigratable platform
Single unified platform configurable for optimum cost/performance/power
2x gate density, up to 50% performance advantages vs. 28nm
Gate-last HKMG, single technology platform
Uses patented High Density Constructs to facilitate IP migration to 14XM

When we move over to 14nm XM we see that this 3d transistor fails to deliver on higher voltage something we will see more and more often. For what AMD intends to use 14nm XM namely ultra mobile chips it is a win but it really has no place in the high end for now.

The 14nm Samsung collaboration is interesting and leaves no doubt that Globalfoundries will become a player as big as TSMC.
Quote:
The work that GLOBALFOUNDRIES and Samsung are doing together will help AMD deliver our next generation of groundbreaking products with new levels of processing and graphics capabilities to devices ranging from low-power mobile devices, to next-generation dense servers to high-performance embedded solutions.

Still doesn't change the fact that 28nm TSMC destroys Intel's 32nm and that 20nm TSMC even if it is not a finfet node it will probably match or destroy Intel's 22nm. Intel's node size however is actually said to be smaller than is really is compared to how the rest of the fabs names it as far as I heard.

There are plenty of cool things coming 2014 even if we don't see a node switch we may still finaly see HDL make it's way in the Carrizo APU late 2014 or early 2015 which is really the only good thing about them staying on 28 besides the savings it brings for AMD.
post #103 of 146
'Power efficiency node' is marketing jargon. Any node can be power efficient if the chip or/and the device is designed to be. See at the ovens of high end GPUs and the 750Ti. There, "performance" and "efficiency" at the same time on the same node.
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post #104 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by szeged View Post

Videocardz


I'll wait for a real source to confirm it.

thumb.gif
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post #105 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

Apple's iphone 6 and next gen ipad launch in Q4 2014. Its most likely that Apple is eating every 20nm SOC wafer at TSMC now and into Q3 2014. The rest are mostly waiting in queue and that means real 20nm volume in Q4 2014 and Q1 2015. If thats the case it makes sense for Nvidia and AMD to launch by Nov 2014 if possible or Q1 2015. I am guessing Nvidia will launch earlier as Maxwell has launched on 28nm. It means Nvidia is working on a well understood architecture at 20nm while AMD works to get its first GCN 2.0 part out.

Does a company who notoriously likes to be as stingy as possible with their oems, that holds a tiny marketshare outside of the us really have that much pull with TSMC?
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post #106 of 146
Seronx said that LPM stands for low power manufacturing he seems to know his stuff so I call still hope for 20nm this year. thumb.gif
post #107 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by .:hybrid:. View Post

Damn I was waiting so I can get a laptop with super efficient GPU mad.gif

I wish Nvidea would hurry up too
Finfet just makes the "gate" taller. It won't leak even when overcharged for faster switching, but it will inevitably run out of battery when on. At least that is my speculation considering the current understanding of transistor efficiency=more frequency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8800GT View Post

Well AMD's 290x is 20% more inefficient than the 780 ti whilst having about a 20% smaller die area. I'd say they could do better in the power department.
There was one particular article that I cannot seem to find right now about a research based on a transistor substrate involving Molybdenum. Also essential in human body and carrying diamond like toughness and in a sheet theoretically as "frictionless" as any hard substance can be, that compound according to the article was a successful prodigy of silicon in future transistors.
The key feature it had, was that it was a "P" type transistor in which context silicon is an "N" type transistor with reasonable consequences. P type signifies more "positive" valence elements surrounding the gate structure than there are Negative elements which indicate that when a successful electron gains enough charge to try and cross the insurmountable resistance the gate is, it just travels along happily since there would always be more positive sites which attract it there on. On the other hand, in current generation silicon transistors there are always more electrons trying to pass the gate, however they cannot, so they wait until they lose their charge vibrating with atoms that are on the "same" side where it started. The vibration leads to heat, ergo there is a finite limit on how much charge with which the transistor model can be overclocked until heat becomes a significant detrusor of performance.
This is the predicament AMD is in. They are ahead in transistor density - consider that Nvidia just one of AMD's nemeses - but they are plagued by the same sickness that has leeched any overachieving microarchitecture since Intel launched Pentium 4. Transistor density leads to heat density based on a power law that an engineer would perhaps amuse us with, but more importantly, silicon chips require a leap in cooling interfaces that can pull more heat per area than a conventional solid layer of copper can, for better and tighter integrated chips. Otherwise, enthusiast and dense library chips will be the first, as it has been, to crash the barrier of reduced efficiency.
Edited by mtcn77 - 4/21/14 at 5:49pm
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post #108 of 146
Did you guys forget about this?

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-2013-roadmap-confirms-radeon-hd-8000-series-q4-2013/
http://techreport.com/news/24345/amd-roadmap-radeon-hd-7000-series-to-be-stable-throughout-2013

That kind of didn't actually happen, remember? And then do you remember what happened in October? 290x released and everything else got rebranded to something besides 7000 series.

When the internet says AMD isn't doing something, the internet hasn't been so right about 290x, 295x2, Mantle, etc.
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post #109 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

Hence the only explanation is that TSMC failed to deliver 20nm and they will only modify it for the 16nm gen since they say it's easy.

But wait, Apple already prints their chips on 20nm. Guys, this is nonsense with vague wording to sell chips in the Summer.

Such nonsense in your words. First of all, Apple doesn't make any chips on 20nm yet. A7 is 28nm and M7 is 90nm. Secondly, 16nm is completely new, it's the first time they are using FinFET so it is very unlike 20nm.
     
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post #110 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Did you guys forget about this?

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-2013-roadmap-confirms-radeon-hd-8000-series-q4-2013/
http://techreport.com/news/24345/amd-roadmap-radeon-hd-7000-series-to-be-stable-throughout-2013

That kind of didn't actually happen, remember? And then do you remember what happened in October? 290x released and everything else got rebranded to something besides 7000 series.

When the internet says AMD isn't doing something, the internet hasn't been so right about 290x, 295x2, Mantle, etc.

Actually. AMD mentioned in 2013 that they would have a new architecture out by the end of 2013. So it depends on where you were looking. Unfortunately, I don't have the article on hand, but the internet news isn't exactly polarized.
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