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[VC] AMD: No 20nm GPUs this year - Page 5

post #41 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxOsurfer3xX View Post

I hope this is not true and just a marketing stunt to sell as many cards as possible...
Even though there will not be 20nm GPUs. We will be getting the full Volcanc Island Suite.

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post #42 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post

Even though there will not be 20nm GPUs. We will be getting the full Volcanc Island Suite.

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New midrange, you say?

Interesting, considering that NVIDIA seems to be taking a similar route with their GM107. Makes sense that they'd want to put the latest-and-greatest midrange on the more mature process too considering how ridiculous the costs to get on new fabs are getting, despite the die size benefits.
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post #43 of 146
OK I plotted the last few major releases of AMD and NVIDIA and I derived the following.

NVIDIA could be overdue for a major release by the end of the year.

AMD isn't mainly because R9 200 was out very recently.
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post #44 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

OK I plotted the last few major releases of AMD and NVIDIA and I derived the following.

NVIDIA could be overdue for a major release by the end of the year.

AMD isn't mainly because R9 200 was out very recently.

If the fabs won't be ready, though, NVIDIA's going to have two options.

1) Quickly throw together something on the same old 28nm node that's barely an improvement and will be replaced in six months (GK210 maybe?)
2) Wait it out and have controlled leaks about how late and horrible 20nm will be to try to convince people to keep buying their old Kepler cards

I honestly wonder which is more profitable.

AMD, on the other hand, is obviously in no rush to replace their current line of cards.
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post #45 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonsyph View Post

Lol intel already show cased 14nm. So i dont see why they had trouble with 20nm

Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

Hence the third line. It would be nonsense. Mainly because, wait a minute, Apple as we speak at this moment is making A8 chips at TSMC on 20nm.

You guys should read up on this stuff more before trying to call shenanigans.
Remember Intel going with the Tri-gate Transistors for 22nm? There was a reason for it. Read THIS article and will help out.

TSMC isn't making a performance node of the 20nm, which is what GPU's and such are made off of. The efficiency node that is used for ARM and things of similar is all that is being used for 20nm.
They cancelled this because of the cost to produce the node with the minimal return on performance increase. I believe they said they have solved this by adding in FinFet, which is what the 16nm half step is.

Remember AMD stating the new APU will be 28nm, as they couldn't get the architecture to work on the 20nm and have as good performance? That leads back to the node type that TSMC is producing.

In that source I linked, there is a great video as part of the article.
For those that haven't read it, you really should. It is a good read. Someone here linked it some weeks back. I don't remember whom, but I am glad they did.

§


Edit: Here is an article about this from 2012. Talks about how nVidia is upset at TSMC about their 20nm.
Edited by shlunky - 4/18/14 at 3:41pm
    
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post #46 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by shlunky View Post

You guys should read up on this stuff more before trying to call shenanigans.
Remember Intel going with the Tri-gate Transistors for 22nm? There was a reason for it. Read THIS article and will help out.

TSMC isn't making a performance node of the 20nm, which is what GPU's and such are made off of. The efficiency node that is used for ARM and things of similar is all that is being used for 20nm.
They cancelled this because of the cost to produce the node with the minimal return on performance increase. I believe they said they have solved this by adding in FinFet, which is what the 16nm half step is.

Remember AMD stating the new APU will be 28nm, as they couldn't get the architecture to work on the 20nm and have as good performance? That leads back to the node type that TSMC is producing.

In that source I linked, there is a great video as part of the article.
For those that haven't read it, you really should. It is a good read. Someone here linked it some weeks back. I don't remember whom, but I am glad they did.

§

TSMC's 16nm FinFET is the performance 20nm node. It's literally just 20nm with FinFETs instead of planar transistors and will not take that long to become available after 20nm. There probably won't even need to be a rehash generation of 20nm GPUs because of this; they'll just go straight to 16nm.
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post #47 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

If the fabs won't be ready, though, NVIDIA's going to have two options.

1) Quickly throw together something on the same old 28nm node that's barely an improvement and will be replaced in six months (GK210 maybe?)
2) Wait it out and have controlled leaks about how late and horrible 20nm will be to try to convince people to keep buying their old Kepler cards

I honestly wonder which is more profitable.

AMD, on the other hand, is obviously in no rush to replace their current line of cards.

NVIDIAs implied option is Maxwell 28nm on big die. But I doubt it's possible. 750ti is a tiny chip, it won't 'just' scale. Well, they might be able to pull ~5% more if they are desperate, fine.

NVIDIA had a history of attacking 20nm as expensive but the situation is very fishy here. Apple is already using it. Why would it exist at all? Why not go directly to 16nm if it's so useless? It's probably not useless. They probably try to sell Keplers in the Summer me thinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlunky View Post


You guys should read up on this stuff more before trying to call shenanigans.
Remember Intel going with the Tri-gate Transistors for 22nm? There was a reason for it. Read THIS article and will help out.

TSMC isn't making a performance node of the 20nm, which is what GPU's and such are made off of. The efficiency node that is used for ARM and things of similar is all that is being used for 20nm.
They cancelled this because of the cost to produce the node with the minimal return on performance increase. I believe they said they have solved this by adding in FinFet, which is what the 16nm half step is.

Remember AMD stating the new APU will be 28nm, as they couldn't get the architecture to work on the 20nm and have as good performance? That leads back to the node type that TSMC is producing.

In that source I linked, there is a great video as part of the article.
For those that haven't read it, you really should. It is a good read. Someone here linked it some weeks back. I don't remember whom, but I am glad they did.

§


Edit: Here is an article about this from 2012. Talks about how nVidia is upset at TSMC about their 20nm.

But there was never a real concept of "efficiency foundry". It's a marketing concept. It's chips that run slower. Or chips that are made smaller. You have a good process that makes efficient chips? Fine, make them bigger and they are faster. Make them run faster and they are "not efficient". Come on. We had efficient chips since the 80s. We called them slow chips.
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post #48 of 146
GPUs are going to come at slower paces now and cost more to make up for it. We just have to keep the money in the pocket and upgrade when its needed.
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post #49 of 146
I wouldn't stress it , GM106 and GM104 instead of GM206 / GM204 should be possible with Maxwell efficiency.

If you just double up GTX 750 Ti's GM107 you'd have a 1280 Maxwell CUDA <120W part , assuming you have a 256-bit memory bus. It'd perform like a 1728 Kepler CUDA part (better than GTX 770) if we factor in +35% per core.
post #50 of 146
I don’t node what’s truly going on, but please give me something NVidia, please, my 6870 is melting.

Ok, that was bad. tongue.gif
    
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