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Did I Lose the Silicon Lottery?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Hello, I have an FX-6350 cooled by a Corsair H105 on an ASUS M5A99FX Pro R2.0 motherboard and I feel the overclocking performance is quite poor. Right now I'm sitting at 4.7Ghz and I cannot get it stable no matter what! When I run prime95 it usually fails within 4 hours running at 1.50 Volts on the V-Core and 1.25 on the CPU NB Voltage. These are the voltages under full load with LLC set to extreme on both. The temps are fine as I am benching at 17C with the core temp staying below 55C. And if I dare clock it to 4.8GHz no amount of voltage will stop it from crashing instantly with prime.
From what I've read most people are reaching 5Ghz with this chip at only 1.48 volts. I'm really upset about spending the money for a good motherboard and good cooler for OCing and buying what should be a higher binned chip (okay I get it, it's not binned better), only to have it OC like crap.

Other info:

HT @ 2600
NB frequency @ 2000
APM OFF
C1E and C6 OFF
Cool N' Quiet OFF
Edited by Grefranger - 4/18/14 at 6:19pm
post #2 of 18
Quote:
and buying what should be a higher binned chip, only to have it OC like crap.
Welcome,

The binning process for FX-6300 chips after about 6 months in production probably falls off to nothing IMO. With the 6350, youre just basically getting a better heatsink that you wont use anyway. That said, theres still a lot to do before you can call your chip complete crap, heh. tongue.gif

First youll need to cool your vrms with a fan. Second a fan on the back of the mobo in the socket vrm area will give you lower socket temps*, which are the governing temps controlling throttling and also help with cooling the vrms. Your cooler is doing a good job on core temps, which can be allowed to reach 70C per AMD Overdrive Software, but of course does nothing for socket temps.

Overclocking guides here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1348623/amd-bulldozer-and-piledriver-overclocking-guide-asus-motherboard/0_20

and here:

http://sites.amd.com/us/Documents/AMD_FX_Performance_Tuning_Guide.pdf

* assuming you have a hole on the back of the mobo mount and free access to the back of the socket and good cool air flow there.

Also post your complete rig in your profile/sig for reference. smile.gif
Quote:
These are the voltages under full load with LLC set to extreme on both.
Just set it to High, no need for extreme, just more heat..
Quote:
From what I've read most people are reaching 5Ghz with this chip at only 1.48 volts.
Some do, and some are not prime95 IBT/AVX stable at that speed. Heck I can do 5.4ghz and post a cpu-z screenshot at below 1.55v, AMDs highest VID for shipping. (Actually I can do a bit better than that, but Im not the extrovert type, heh.)
Edited by cpmee - 4/18/14 at 5:19pm
    
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post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmee View Post

The binning process for FX-6300 chips after about 6 months in production probably falls off to nothing IMO. With the 6350, youre just basically getting a better heatsink that you wont use anyway.
Well damn, there goes 10$!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmee View Post

First youll need to cool your vrms with a fan. Second a fan on the back of the mobo in the socket vrm area will give you lower socket temps*, which are the governing temps controlling throttling and also help with cooling the vrms.
Got that covered, I have a 140MM fan running directly behind the CPU socket. Socket temps rarely go above 50C and the 'mainboard' temp (is this measuring VRMs?) rarely goes above 30C.
Considering:
Core temps at 55C
Socket temps at 50C
Mainboard at 30C
There's just no way temps are the problem here, or am I missing something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmee View Post

Also post your complete rig in your profile/sig for reference. smile.gif

I filled a profile in the RigBuilder, http://www.overclock.net/lists/display/view/id/5761801.
Is there an easy way to throw that in my sig?
Edited by Grefranger - 4/18/14 at 5:24pm
post #4 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grefranger View Post

buying what should be a higher binned chip, only to have it OC like crap.

The FX-6350 is not a higher binned chip than the FX-6300.

Stock voltages/speeds...
3.5GHZ @ ~1.25V = ~95W TDP
3.9GHZ @ ~1.35V= ~125W TDP

0.025V per 100mhz is sort of the "standard" for these chips within stock ranges. (observe AMD Turbo-states for reference). Any FX-6300 with +0.1V and a multiplier overclock to 3.9GHZ will run with the same power dissipation and stability as the FX-6350, and any FX-6350 with -0.1V and a multiplier under-clock will run with the same power dissipation and stability as the FX-6300.

If the FX-6350 were also sold as a "95W" chip, then it would have certainly been a higher binned chip. When a higher clocked chip comes in a different TDP envelope, there is often no guarantee of it being binned any better.


Sorry to say it, the added cost of the FX-6350 is all tied up in the included HSF and the false impression of a better binned chip.

On the other hand, an FX-8350 is actually a better binned chip (on average) than the FX-8320. The FX-9590 is actually a better binned chip than the FX-9370 on average. Do you think the FX-9370 is a better binned chip than the FX-8350 with a 220W TDP envelope to work in and only +400mhz base clocks from the "125W" FX-8350?


I actually have reason to believe, that the FX-6350 could be a LOWER binned chip on average, than the FX-6300 (no proof). My reasoning for this belief is that, the HSF that comes with the FX-6300 is pathetic, and would cause problems if the chips weren't stable at decently low voltage (most FX-6300's have core VID of ~1.25V or less). On the other hand, the HSF that comes with the FX-6350, is the same that comes with the FX-8350, and is good for an easy 140W+ worth of dissipation, which would allow them to throw less than ideal chips into the FX-6350 bin on the heavier HSF and get away without problems.
Edited by mdocod - 4/18/14 at 5:38pm
     
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
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post #5 of 18
Quote:
There's just no way temps are the problem here, or am I missing something?
Maybe and it depends a lot on its position. I just use a 92mm fan and its positioned to cover just the right areas and now controlled by Fan Xpert in AI Suite on the cpu-opt socket. Keep in mind the center of the fan, its a dead air spot close up.
Quote:
Well damn, there goes 10$!
More like $40 at the time I bought my 6300. biggrin.gif

Quote:
Core temps at 55C
Socket temps at 50C
Mainboard at 30C

That looks good if room temp is 25C.
Quote:
Other info:

HT @ 2600
NB frequency @ 2000
APM OFF
C1E and C6 OFF
Cool N' Quiet OFF

Turbo off ???

HT basically does nothing for performance (you can really push HT very high, but no point above 2600). NB frequency does. I run HT and NB at about 2500 equal (no proof and probably all in my mind, but I think its stabiler that way on fsb overclocking), which will depend on fsb speed. See fsb overclocking in the first link. I run 250 X 19.5 at 1.488 volts(same voltage as I was with 4.8 230 X 21), but with CnQ enabled now.
Dont enable CnQ / offset voltages until satisfied with your OC.
Quote:
Is there an easy way to throw that in my sig?
Yep. Go to your profile and scroll down, youll see where you can set up you rig. Dont forget to finish and save.
Edited by cpmee - 4/18/14 at 6:05pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300 @ 4.9ghz M5A99X EVO R2.0 PNY 2gb NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 PNY DDR3-1600 9-9-9-24 2X4gb 
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Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Intel 330 SSD Samsung HD103SI Samsung HD204UI X 2 esata externals  Western Digital WD5000AAKX  
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Optiarc DVD RW AD-7280S Cooler Master Hyper 212 plus Windows 8.1.1 pro with media center Funai 32inch LED HDTV 
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Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 Corsair CX600 Custom twin full tower, 12 - 5 1/4 bays total Logitech M510 
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post #6 of 18
Quote:
I actually have reason to believe, that the FX-6350 could be a LOWER binned chip on average, than the FX-6300 (no proof).

You make a very good point there, but Im so skeptical and cynical of human nature that I believe they take the natural easiest way out and do no binning all, heh. tongue.gif Maybe, maybe on the first runs, but not later. And on the remote chance they are binning, its only natural that the binners would slack off after a while. Its just human nature to take the easy way out, especially when chip yields are good.
Edited by cpmee - 4/18/14 at 5:57pm
    
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post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmee View Post

Turbo off ???
HT basically does nothing for performance (you can really push HT very high, but no point above 2600)
Dont enable CnQ / offset voltages until satisfied with your OC.
Yep. Go to your profile and scroll down, youll see where you can set up you rig. Dont forget to finish and save.

Turbo is off

I didn't say anything about HT. I'm running it at 2600 which is stock speed.
I said CnQ was off, and yes I am using manual voltages.
I setup and saved the myrig thing before I even posted, any clue as to why it's not showing up in my sig?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

The FX-6350 is not a higher binned chip than the FX-6300.

Stock voltages/speeds...
3.5GHZ @ ~1.25V = ~95W TDP
3.9GHZ @ ~1.35V= ~125W TDP

0.025V per 100mhz is sort of the "standard" for these chips within stock ranges. (observe AMD Turbo-states for reference). Any FX-6300 with +0.1V and a multiplier overclock to 3.9GHZ will run with the same power dissipation and stability as the FX-6350, and any FX-6350 with -0.1V and a multiplier under-clock will run with the same power dissipation and stability as the FX-6300.

If the FX-6350 were also sold as a "95W" chip, then it would have certainly been a higher binned chip. When a higher clocked chip comes in a different TDP envelope, there is often no guarantee of it being binned any better.


Sorry to say it, the added cost of the FX-6350 is all tied up in the included HSF and the false impression of a better binned chip.

On the other hand, an FX-8350 is actually a better binned chip (on average) than the FX-8320. The FX-9590 is actually a better binned chip than the FX-9370 on average. Do you think the FX-9370 is a better binned chip than the FX-8350 with a 220W TDP envelope to work in and only +400mhz base clocks from the "125W" FX-8350?


I actually have reason to believe, that the FX-6350 could be a LOWER binned chip on average, than the FX-6300 (no proof). My reasoning for this belief is that, the HSF that comes with the FX-6300 is pathetic, and would cause problems if the chips weren't stable at decently low voltage (most FX-6300's have core VID of ~1.25V or less). On the other hand, the HSF that comes with the FX-6350, is the same that comes with the FX-8350, and is good for an easy 140W+ worth of dissipation, which would allow them to throw less than ideal chips into the FX-6350 bin on the heavier HSF and get away without problems.

Thank you for the explanation on why the 6350 sucks. Could you PLEASE offer some overclocking advice that I have not already done.
Edited by Grefranger - 4/18/14 at 6:41pm
post #8 of 18
Quote:
Turbo is off

I didn't say anything about HT. I'm running it at 2600 which is stock speed.
I said CnQ was off, and yes I am using manual voltages.
I setup the myrig thing before I even posted.

Just checking, we cant assume anything unless you post it. Your rig isnt in your sig as you can also see, so something is wrong. About HT and CnQ/offset voltage, it was just a general statement to keep in the back of your mind when overclocking.
Quote:
Thank you for the explanation on why the 6350 sucks. Could you PLEASE offer some overclocking advice that I have not already done.
Ease up, we dont know the full extent of what or what not you have done so far. Would you by your postings ??

If youre looking for an easy fix, like put XXX voltage up to XXX, set frequency to XXX on XXX, sorry about that, there isnt one. Different combos require different remedies.

Since we cant see your rig for what ever reason, whats your psu and whats your memory make and model ? And include your graphics cards, please. And any other high draw devices.
Quote:
and I feel the overclocking performance is quite poor.
That of course is relative and subjective. A lot of people with 970 or lesser boards would be quite happy with 4.6 ghz, heh. Were just trying to get you to 5 ghz, which IMO is quite doable with your equipment.
Edited by cpmee - 4/18/14 at 7:05pm
    
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FX-6300 @ 4.9ghz M5A99X EVO R2.0 PNY 2gb NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 PNY DDR3-1600 9-9-9-24 2X4gb 
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post #9 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmee View Post

Ease up, we dont know the full extent of what or what not you have done so far. Would you by your postings ??
If youre looking for an easy fix, like put XXX voltage up to XXX, set frequency to XXX on XXX, sorry about that, there isnt one. Different combos require different remedies.
Since we cant see your rig for what ever reason, whats your psu and whats your memory make and model ? And include your graphics cards, please. And any other high draw devices.

Come on man, please, read my posts........ sleepsmiley02.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grefranger View Post

Hello, I have an FX-6350 cooled by a Corsair H105 on an ASUS M5A99FX Pro R2.0 motherboard and I feel the overclocking performance is quite poor. Right now I'm sitting at 4.7Ghz and I cannot get it stable no matter what! When I run prime95 it usually fails within 4 hours running at 1.50 Volts on the V-Core and 1.25 on the CPU NB Voltage. These are the voltages under full load with LLC set to extreme on both. The temps are fine as I am benching at 17C with the core temp staying below 55C. And if I dare clock it to 4.8GHz no amount of voltage will stop it from crashing instantly with prime.
From what I've read most people are reaching 5Ghz with this chip at only 1.48 volts. I'm really upset about spending the money for a good motherboard and good cooler for OCing and buying what should be a higher binned chip (okay I get it, it's not binned better), only to have it OC like crap.

Other info:
HT @ 2600
NB frequency @ 2000
APM OFF
C1E and C6 OFF
Cool N' Quiet OFF

In my second post....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grefranger View Post

I filled a profile in the RigBuilder, http://www.overclock.net/lists/display/view/id/5761801.

Edited by Grefranger - 4/18/14 at 7:07pm
post #10 of 18
Is voltage rising or falling under a load with Extreme LLC? (compared to no-load conditions)
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
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OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
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Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
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Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
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Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
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LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
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LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
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logitec M235 
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