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post #41 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

I guess it depends on how popular "cross platform games" end up being, and by cross platform I mean desktop and tablet/phone. Because, let's be entirely honest, I can't see Linux or Mac taking over gaming on the desktop any time soon.

This has nothing do with Linux except that Linux will be able to take advantage ( at least, more easily ) of games writtin in OpenGL. This makes making Linux and Mac ports of games almost painless compared to having to convert a full DX/D3D game to OpenGL which is almost unheard of by most publishers / developers because it simply isn't worth the time. So going OpenGL naturally opens up a bigger audience. They don't HAVE to limit themselves to Windows only, and this is becoming ever more clear in recent years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

The only other platforms that leaves is consoles, which AFAIK both use direct x for the most part this generation (with PS3 using a modified version of OpenGL last gen?).

THe PS4 uses OpenGL not DirectX. Again, DirectX/D3D are Microsoft only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Whilst Valve are pushing for Linux support, I don't think they'd be suicidal enough to begin releasing big-name Linux exclusives to further that end. So how that progresses is going to be tied to the fate of their steam machines project, which is risky at best.

Again, it doesn't have to be exclusive. Them simply wanting a Linux version means they're going to be using OpenGL which opens them up to all sorts of possiblities in terms of being able to run it on just about anything with little extra headroom. It's not tied to the fate of their steam machines, as SteamOS is indepedent of the machines, and is run as much by the community as it is Valve.

Another big thing that stopped games on Linux was simply due to complications from buying games. You used to have to buy a game specifically for an OS and it wouldn't run on another OS. With Steam now already on Linux and Mac and shared licenses between all OS's, this makes distribution all that much easier. Let alone games weren't made for Linux before as much simply because of it's open source nature and general opposition to proprietary software and DRM. But now we have Steam ( as DRM system, along with distribution system ) remedies some fears of releasing on Linux, along with the overall change in times in that when I first started using Linux, it was nothing but command line, and today... it's not any harder than Windows, and the command line can be completely ignored just like Windows. Along with graphical package repositories from which every smartphone OS as late ( Android, iOS and even Windows Phone / RT ) took it's cue from, makes it that much easier and familiar.

Doubt Linux and Mac all you want but the fact of the matter is Linux has gained over 400 games in the last 2 years due to Steam pushing for it. Along with big publishers promising Linux games in the coming years. And whether or not you want to admit or not, there is a change coming.

And again, this has little to do with Linux except that Linux will benefit from the shift, and honestly, everyone will benefit from the use of OpenGL. And I'm not saying Linux is going to overtake Windows at all, I'm saying OpenGL is going to overtake DirectX/D3D once again.
post #42 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Tbf "OpenGL is the future" flies in the face of all available evidence.

I cannot name a single "AAA" game released in the last few years that used OpenGL over DX, in fact I can't even think of any mid-level games. Don't get me wrong, it's probably got a lot of stuff going for it, but it doesn't seem that any developers care enough to add support for it.

most of all the valve games are now Open GL at least on mac and linux they do, can't remember if the windows version still uses DX or not. also the bioshock series has open GL ports on mac.

don't forget Star Citizen.

Also current trending shows us AAA titles are becoming less popular while indie games are becoming more popular and we see lots of multi platform indie titles running on open gl.


Also PS3 and PS 4 use a special version of Open GL so there is a whole bunch of triple AAA titles right there. tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitemarks and bloodstains View Post

Civilisation: Beyond Earth, Wolfenstein: The New Order, Doom 4,Tropico 5 & Blitzkrieg 3 will all use OpenGL.

NICE!
Edited by cdoublejj - 4/21/14 at 11:40am
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post #43 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoublejj View Post


don't forget Star Citizen.

NICE!

Star Citizen uses OpenGL?I thought CryENGINE only used DX except for PS games redface.gif
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post #44 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABD EL HAMEED View Post

Star Citizen uses OpenGL?I thought CryENGINE only used DX except for PS games redface.gif

they announced the linux version finally... afaik. also cryengine announced it's being ported to linux finally as well.
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post #45 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoublejj View Post

they announced the linux version finally... afaik. also cryengine announced it's being ported to linux finally as well.

If I can get the CryENGINE free SDK for linux then Linux will be my main OS =))))
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post #46 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoublejj View Post

Also current rending shows up AAA titles are becoming a less popular while indie games are becoming more popular and we see lots of multi platform indie titles running on open gl.

I honestly prefer Indie games to "AAA" titles these days. "AAA" titles just scream money grab to me. Pay $60, get 9 hours of single player and who knows what for a multiplayer... then pay another $60 over the course of the year to get all the expansions...

Whereas with Indies, you typically pay around $15-20 ( or less ) and get countless hours of fun on the single players alone. And if they have multiplayer then it's also usually a ton of fun for countless hours.

I myself have more time put into Indie games over the last 4 years or so than I have on AAA titles. Stuff like Terraria, Star Bound, Minecraft, Kerbal Space Station and many other sandbox type of games are so much more fun than any sandbox games that have gone AAA. Then there's even the tons of other genres... I prefer older shooting games to newer ones myself ( quake and other arena shooters ), battlefield and cod can't hold a candle to them in terms of fun. Maybe not as flashy, but solid story and - or gameplay will trump anything labeled "AAA".
post #47 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

I honestly prefer Indie games to "AAA" titles these days. "AAA" titles just scream money grab to me. Pay $60, get 9 hours of single player and who knows what for a multiplayer... then pay another $60 over the course of the year to get all the expansions...

Whereas with Indies, you typically pay around $15-20 ( or less ) and get countless hours of fun on the single players alone. And if they have multiplayer then it's also usually a ton of fun for countless hours.

I myself have more time put into Indie games over the last 4 years or so than I have on AAA titles. Stuff like Terraria, Star Bound, Minecraft, Kerbal Space Station and many other sandbox type of games are so much more fun than any sandbox games that have gone AAA. Then there's even the tons of other genres... I prefer older shooting games to newer ones myself ( quake and other arena shooters ), battlefield and cod can't hold a candle to them in terms of fun. Maybe not as flashy, but solid story and - or gameplay will trump anything labeled "AAA".

I wasn't even going to get into that argument. The fact remains he is unaware of all of the titles which have been getting OpenGL support recently, most likely because they have been announced as "Linux" support, not OpenGL.

Edit: Ugh, thought you quoted NihilOC there.
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post #48 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Really? I can name a tonne: Namely, at least a large portion of games on the various Playstations. (Sony uses PSGL, an adapted version of OpenGL)

Not to mention, popularity has nothing to do with how good something actually is, just look at modern mainstream music for proof of that. (That blog is fairly biased, but it does show some of the tactics MS was using to get DX everywhere.) In terms of actual features and performance, it's really give and take afaik...DX is ahead in some areas but OpenGL is ahead in others.

Popularity does, however, have a lot to do with whether or not something is "the future" tongue.gif

And, for what it's worth, PSGL isn't OpenGL. it's actually, somewhat ironically, based on Cg which was developed by MS and NV. PSGL isn't used very much either, most people use GCM.

As for the PS4, AFAIK it supports a modified version of D3D and it has a custom API for low level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

THe PS4 uses OpenGL not DirectX. Again, DirectX/D3D are Microsoft only.
PS4 doesn't support Direct X? And it uses Open GL instead? Interesting.

Please, tell me more about how you double check your facts before posting.

Sorry if I sound irate, but you're essentially posting something that you clearly aren't sure of and presenting it as fact. Without even thinking to double check that you're correct. That's just silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Doubt Linux and Mac all you want but the fact of the matter is Linux has gained over 400 games in the last 2 years due to Steam pushing for it. Along with big publishers promising Linux games in the coming years. And whether or not you want to admit or not, there is a change coming.
I'm sorry, but I think I've missed the part where people start migrating to Linux en mass tongue.gif

Wake me up when that happens.
Edited by NihilOC - 4/21/14 at 12:07pm
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post #49 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post


PS4 doesn't support Direct X? And it uses Open GL instead? Interesting.

Please, tell me more about how you double check your facts before posting.

Sorry if I sound irate, but you're essentially posting something that you clearly aren't sure of and presenting it as fact. Without even thinking to double check that you're correct. That's just silly.

Did you even read that thread before posting it?

Not like you haven't been posting stuff presenting it as facts without proof as well, but hey whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

I'm sorry, but I think I've missed the part where people start migrating to Linux en mass tongue.gif

Wake me up when that happens.

And when did I say that people would? I explicitly said that's not going to happen.
Edited by Shrak - 4/21/14 at 12:21pm
post #50 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Did you even read that thread before posting it?
Read Bobvodka's post a few posts down, sorry I thought the post number was specified in the URL. Apparently it just links to the top of the thread tongue.gif

(Bob is a pretty well known and respected developer, I'll quote his opinion of OpenGL below)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobV 
And one final note on OpenGL's "speed" vs D3D as reported by Valve.
While I can believe the numbers this was largely a PR stunt to some degree by Valve and NV - the Source engine is/was very D3D9 centric due to when it was written, which means best practises then might well not work as well now. D3D9 is known to have a higher per-draw call over head so this speed difference wasn't the surprising. A lot of what the engine does and how it does it can have an impact on speed simply due to how they interact with the API.

Show me a D3D11 vs OpenGL4 test and I might care a bit more but OpenGL's problem has never been one of 'speed' it's always been one of poor tools, poor driver support (AMD still lacking 4.3 support) and a brain-dead programming model which needs to go and die somewhere frankly.

That's not to say D3D11's way of doing things is The Best Way Evah! but in my opinion as a (published) ex-OpenGL programmer it is the best PC API we have right now.
(And some of that is in part down to the ARB not being able to find its own arse given a map, detailed instructions, GPS coordinates and a picture - I don't trust them to get the job done, say what you like about MS but if we had relied on the ARB to push things forward we'd probably still be looking at graphics of around the 2006 era.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

And when did I say that people would? I explicitly said that's not going to happen.
Your argument appears to be that Linux will gain from OpenGL increasing in popularity, and OpenGL will increase in popularity because it enables Linux support.

The fact that neither are currently very widely used, and that this logic is a little bit circular, is why I made a somewhat tongue in cheek comment about people migrating (or not migrating) to Linux.

Simply put: there is no motivation outside of steam machines to support OpenGL. It isn't better than D3D, it isn't currently widely used and your potential user base is not going to increase significantly by supporting Linux or Mac.

As someone pointed out a few pages back, there are a few id Tech 5 games that will support OpenGL coming out at some stage and that's about it. Everything else is Direct X.
Edited by NihilOC - 4/21/14 at 12:30pm
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