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[Phoronix] The Most Amazing OpenGL Tech Demo In 64kb - Page 6

post #51 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Read Bobvodka's post a few posts down, sorry I thought the post number was specified in the URL. Apparently it just links to the top of the thread tongue.gif

I did. And nowhere does he say the PS4 uses DX or D3D. He even clarifies it on the last page where he lists what consoles use what API.
Quote:
Wii/WiiU - custom API, not OpenGL
PS3 - custom API, not OpenGL - does have a poor OpenGL|ES version which no one uses
PS4 - custom API
Android - OpenGL|ES but the platform is a slight mess with regards to quirks
iOS - OpenGL|ES, platform is coherent

More so, how about we go to another source..
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4
Quote:
A more crucial issue is that, while the PS4 toolchain is designed to be familiar to those working on PC, the new Sony hardware doesn't use the DirectX API, so Sony has supplied two of their own.

"The graphics APIs are brand new - they don't have any legacy baggage, so they're quite clean, well thought-out and match the hardware really well," says Reflections' expert programmer Simon O'Connor.

We can do more if you want? But all point to PS4 not using the DX/D3D API.


As to the rest of the post, I really don't feel like arguing with someone who doesn't seem to read Linux news, or really anything related to whats being talked about. That and the incredible selective reading.
Edited by Shrak - 4/21/14 at 12:38pm
post #52 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

THe PS4 uses OpenGL not DirectX. Again, DirectX/D3D are Microsoft only.

So, you've backtracked a tad then?

As I've already stated the PS4 low level api is called Gnm, both the PS4 and XB1 can use a modified version of D3D for high level. Or at least this was true at one stage, and I've heard nothing to the contrary since.

There is no equivalent of PSGL for PS4, even if PSGL was OpenGL, which it isn't. Nor are there any OpenGL wrappers that I'm aware of, since PS3's OpenGL wrapper was a massive failure I doubt there will be.

If you really want to argue over it, or get angry for whatever reason, then fine. But you've already backtracked and I'd advise you to double check your facts before doing so.

So to reiterate: OpenGL isn't widely used, Linux isn't very popular and outside of Valve the motivations for this to change are probably too limited for it to actually happen.
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post #53 of 81
Yeah, adiós.
post #54 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

I wasn't even going to get into that argument. The fact remains he is unaware of all of the titles which have been getting OpenGL support recently, most likely because they have been announced as "Linux" support, not OpenGL.

Edit: Ugh, thought you quoted NihilOC there.

I only made that argument because NihilOC brought up "trends".
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Popularity does, however, have a lot to do with whether or not something is "the future" tongue.gif

And, for what it's worth, PSGL isn't OpenGL. it's actually, somewhat ironically, based on Cg which was developed by MS and NV. PSGL isn't used very much either, most people use GCM.

As for the PS4, AFAIK it supports a modified version of D3D and it has a custom API for low level.
PS4 doesn't support Direct X? And it uses Open GL instead? Interesting.

Please, tell me more about how you double check your facts before posting.

Sorry if I sound irate, but you're essentially posting something that you clearly aren't sure of and presenting it as fact. Without even thinking to double check that you're correct. That's just silly.
I'm sorry, but I think I've missed the part where people start migrating to Linux en mass tongue.gif

Wake me up when that happens.

how do you know PSGL is based off of cg and that it's MS based? just asking because i've only heard of it being an adapted version of OGL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Read Bobvodka's post a few posts down, sorry I thought the post number was specified in the URL. Apparently it just links to the top of the thread tongue.gif

(Bob is a pretty well known and respected developer, I'll quote his opinion of OpenGL below)

Your argument appears to be that Linux will gain from OpenGL increasing in popularity, and OpenGL will increase in popularity because it enables Linux support.

The fact that neither are currently very widely used, and that this logic is a little bit circular, is why I made a somewhat tongue in cheek comment about people migrating (or not migrating) to Linux.

Simply put: there is no motivation outside of steam machines to support OpenGL. It isn't better than D3D, it isn't currently widely used and your potential user base is not going to increase significantly by supporting Linux or Mac.

As someone pointed out a few pages back, there are a few id Tech 5 games that will support OpenGL coming out at some stage and that's about it. Everything else is Direct X.

also the main benefit for OGL isn't so muhc speed but, the fact it's mutliplatform. linux isn't the old OGL only platform.
when he says linux will "gain" he doesn't mean users who means "benefit" as in it will have more applications for it etc etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Read Bobvodka's post a few posts down, sorry I thought the post number was specified in the URL. Apparently it just links to the top of the thread tongue.gif

(Bob is a pretty well known and respected developer, I'll quote his opinion of OpenGL below)

Your argument appears to be that Linux will gain from OpenGL increasing in popularity, and OpenGL will increase in popularity because it enables Linux support.

The fact that neither are currently very widely used, and that this logic is a little bit circular, is why I made a somewhat tongue in cheek comment about people migrating (or not migrating) to Linux.

Simply put: there is no motivation outside of steam machines to support OpenGL. It isn't better than D3D, it isn't currently widely used and your potential user base is not going to increase significantly by supporting Linux or Mac.

As someone pointed out a few pages back, there are a few id Tech 5 games that will support OpenGL coming out at some stage and that's about it. Everything else is Direct X.

when he says linux will "gain" he doesn't mean users who means "benefit" as in it will have more applications for it etc etc.

he NEVER said that he said the PSGL used technology/software created by MS, namely "CG" (edit maybe "gnm") which is not D3D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

So, you've backtracked a tad then?

As I've already stated the PS4 low level api is called Gnm, both the PS4 and XB1 can use a modified version of D3D for high level. Or at least this was true at one stage, and I've heard nothing to the contrary since.

There is no equivalent of PSGL for PS4, even if PSGL was OpenGL, which it isn't. Nor are there any OpenGL wrappers that I'm aware of, since PS3's OpenGL wrapper was a massive failure I doubt there will be.

If you really want to argue over it, or get angry for whatever reason, then fine. But you've already backtracked and I'd advise you to double check your facts before doing so.

So to reiterate: OpenGL isn't widely used, Linux isn't very popular and outside of Valve the motivations for this to change are probably too limited for it to actually happen.

well considering Valve is THE largest game distributor on the PC side i wouldn't say that's any thing to scoff at.
Edited by cdoublejj - 4/21/14 at 1:31pm
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post #55 of 81
windows 8.1 won't run this at all
post #56 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by kx11 View Post

windows 8.1 won't run this at all

Same problem here frown.gif
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post #57 of 81
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post #58 of 81
.nfo: "Dear ATI, please support GLSL uniform default values, so that your users can watch this release in real-time."
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post #59 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Popularity does, however, have a lot to do with whether or not something is "the future" tongue.gif

And, for what it's worth, PSGL isn't OpenGL. it's actually, somewhat ironically, based on Cg which was developed by MS and NV. PSGL isn't used very much either, most people use GCM.

As for the PS4, AFAIK it supports a modified version of D3D and it has a custom API for low level.
PS4 doesn't support Direct X? And it uses Open GL instead? Interesting.

Please, tell me more about how you double check your facts before posting.

Sorry if I sound irate, but you're essentially posting something that you clearly aren't sure of and presenting it as fact. Without even thinking to double check that you're correct. That's just silly.
I'm sorry, but I think I've missed the part where people start migrating to Linux en mass tongue.gif

Wake me up when that happens.

But wait... Cg, which was designed with the aid of MS. outputs either DX or OGL based shader programs. That's all it does, the rest of the PS4's PS3 (correction) development is in OGL and unix software. Wait what!? That's because it's well known that PS3/PS4 is loosely based off BSD. To be apt, based off FreeBSD which is a Unix derivative (or a form of Unix, whatever you want to go with).

What does this all mean? It means the rendering API used is going to be OGL, heavily modified. So pretty much Sony uses PSGL (based on OGL ES) with Cg (Nvidia) for shader work. Where's DX come into play? What I'm saying is, every game on the PS3 uses a form of OGL. EVERY game. That's not one, two, or three, that's every single amazing game.

Even funnier, every cross platform game for the consoles ran off OGL. COD? That isn't AAA enough? Assassin's Creed? Not AAA enough?

Please, your basically re-iterating crap that was said years ago until it was said that PS3 used OGL LE. OGL is extremely powerful, the only reason why it isn't really a major PC option is because developers want the Xbox to have their game. So they develop in DX as well, which makes porting to Windows much easier. The tools for DX are basically pushed by MS, it's also not a surprise that the tools are "better". MS sees how this works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

So, you've backtracked a tad then?

As I've already stated the PS4 low level api is called Gnm, both the PS4 and XB1 can use a modified version of D3D for high level. Or at least this was true at one stage, and I've heard nothing to the contrary since.

There is no equivalent of PSGL for PS4, even if PSGL was OpenGL, which it isn't. Nor are there any OpenGL wrappers that I'm aware of, since PS3's OpenGL wrapper was a massive failure I doubt there will be.

If you really want to argue over it, or get angry for whatever reason, then fine. But you've already backtracked and I'd advise you to double check your facts before doing so.

So to reiterate: OpenGL isn't widely used, Linux isn't very popular and outside of Valve the motivations for this to change are probably too limited for it to actually happen.

Wrong, GNMX is used on the PS4 for high level. Gnm is probably based off Mantle work, which would make quite a bit of sense considering who made the chip powering the PS4.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4
Edited by mushroomboy - 4/22/14 at 12:08am
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post #60 of 81
Soooo can I use this as a GPU stress test?
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