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[Phoronix] The Most Amazing OpenGL Tech Demo In 64kb - Page 7

post #61 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by kx11 View Post

windows 8.1 won't run this at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABD EL HAMEED View Post

Same problem here frown.gif


windows 8 has some issues... i have to wonder if it some of it's app compatibility issues stem from the way the way they changed how some of the video/video driver stuff works. don't get me wrong I am indeed hating on windows 8 but, reason other than UI having been using it my self. also if you have 8 or 8.1 trying playing call of jaurez bound in blood and enjoy the upside down cut-scenes tongue.gif (among a few games) freaky-deeky stuff man.

EDIT: gonna take this opportunity to hate on AMD too with crap software. if you have an older ATI card or don't exclusively game on windows enjoy the software issues. (i know the ATI/AMD software frustration first hand)

/rant sorry to be a pain guys but, sometimes a guy has get some stuff off his chest.
Edited by cdoublejj - 4/21/14 at 10:55pm
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post #62 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

I honestly prefer Indie games to "AAA" titles these days. "AAA" titles just scream money grab to me. Pay $60, get 9 hours of single player and who knows what for a multiplayer... then pay another $60 over the course of the year to get all the expansions...

Whereas with Indies, you typically pay around $15-20 ( or less ) and get countless hours of fun on the single players alone. And if they have multiplayer then it's also usually a ton of fun for countless hours.

I myself have more time put into Indie games over the last 4 years or so than I have on AAA titles. Stuff like Terraria, Star Bound, Minecraft, Kerbal Space Station and many other sandbox type of games are so much more fun than any sandbox games that have gone AAA. Then there's even the tons of other genres... I prefer older shooting games to newer ones myself ( quake and other arena shooters ), battlefield and cod can't hold a candle to them in terms of fun. Maybe not as flashy, but solid story and - or gameplay will trump anything labeled "AAA".

I definitely have to agree here, even the AAA games I have bought and didn't eventually feel a bit ripped off recently have typically been ones with tonnes of replay value and modding support (Skyrim and Civ V)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Popularity does, however, have a lot to do with whether or not something is "the future" tongue.gif

And, for what it's worth, PSGL isn't OpenGL. it's actually, somewhat ironically, based on Cg which was developed by MS and NV. PSGL isn't used very much either, most people use GCM.

As for the PS4, AFAIK it supports a modified version of D3D and it has a custom API for low level.

Not really, it eventually does but OpenGL was much more popular than DX for a while...Likewise with Apple to Windows, it really has no bearing on the future apart from something needing to get that market eventually and what do you see happening now? More and more developers are supporting OpenGL now as has been shown to you countless times in this thread. (To add another popular game that uses OpenGL to the mix, Minecraft. It may not be AAA but even most AAA games don't end up with nearly 20 million sales.)

Actually, it is. It's based off of CG and OpenGL-ES...Even if you don't consider that OpenGL based (And other than all the games mentioned here) the 3DS, Android, iPhones/iPads and the like have all used OpenGL ES by itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Simply put: there is no motivation outside of steam machines to support OpenGL. It isn't better than D3D, it isn't currently widely used and your potential user base is not going to increase significantly by supporting Linux or Mac.

Going by the Humble Bundles, it's happened a few times for Linux and Mac to make up nearly as many sales as Windows actually..Even when they don't, it's still a significant market. (Around 10% of the total desktop market..Not including the fact that most of those won't be gamers, though)

Going by Steams Hardware Survey, it's around 5% (3.54% OS X, 1.2% Linux) which is still a fairly big market when you consider how hit and miss the Hardware Survey can be. The fact that both nVidia and AMD have improved their drivers so much along with game engines now adding official support left right and centre (Want a few bigger names? Unreal Engine, CryEngine and rumours of Frostbite) among others also just shows that it's more likely than ever to happen.
Edited by Brutuz - 4/22/14 at 12:20am
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post #63 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I definitely have to agree here, even the AAA games I have bought and didn't eventually feel a bit ripped off recently have typically been ones with tonnes of replay value and modding support (Skyrim and Civ V)

Civ V I got for free during the give away but it definitely would be worth the money. Tons of replay value in it. Unfortunately I haven't played Skyrim yet, last elder scrolls game I play(ed) is Morrowind which I put a ton of time in as well. Definitely two great games there. Last "AAA" title I bought was Diablo III and I have maybe... 400-500 hours in it at the moment, so in terms of time spent I got my monies worth. Also made my $60 back from the auction house within the first couple of months, so there's that too. Been meaning to buy the expansion but haven't had a video card for a while and I'm pretty much been stuck on an old core2duo laptop, but my video card is supposed to be here today hopefully.

But yeah, I have many games where I simply didn't feel I got a full $60 worth. Main reason I love Steam and Indie games is because there's great sales multiple times a year, if I can get a "AAA" game for under $15'ish then I don't mind it, but I don't feel most are worth the $45-60 asking price. More so for those across the waters paying upwards of $100 for them... And all the indie bundles from Humble Bundle, Indie Gala and more... you simply can't beat that kind of value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Going by Steams Hardware Survey, it's around 5% (3.54% OS X, 1.2% Linux) which is still a fairly big market when you consider how hit and miss the Hardware Survey can be.

And even then Steams survey is extremely hit or miss. For the longest time the hardware survey was broken in Linux, it simply never showed up for the majority of us. And to this day I've only gotten 2 of them. The first back when Steam first came to Linux two years ago and the other actually about a week ago. Whereas my girlfriends Windows laptop gets them at least once every month or two... Then take into account that even if you're on Linux and you use Steam through Wine to play WIndows games, the Hardware Survey marks it as Windows XP and not Linux. So there's another mark against the Hardware Survey.

So considering all the flaws on the Linux side of the survey, that ~5% really looks decent.
post #64 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrubbb View Post

so what does this mean for the future?

nothing.

i played this exact type of thing 8 years ago, it didn't influence the future at all
post #65 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by kx11 View Post

windows 8.1 won't run this at all

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABD EL HAMEED View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kx11 View Post

windows 8.1 won't run this at all

Same problem here frown.gif

 

 

 

 

Well that explains why it crashes.

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post #66 of 81
Wouldn't the level of compression yield significant CPU usage, latencies, etc., to decompress? Our developers still have significant troubles in making good efficient, let alone multi-threaded content. Although, this might put the unused cores to significantly better use.
post #67 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post


Going by Steams Hardware Survey, it's around 5% (3.54% OS X, 1.2% Linux) which is still a fairly big market when you consider how hit and miss the Hardware Survey can be. The fact that both nVidia and AMD have improved their drivers so much along with game engines now adding official support left right and centre (Want a few bigger names? Unreal Engine, CryEngine and rumours of Frostbite) among others also just shows that it's more likely than ever to happen.

Based on gross numbers, still a very small market. But the amount of people that use only Linux is much smaller. I wouldn't be surprised that less than 0.5% are actual dedicated Linux users, let alone, 0.2% are active. That would yield the current active 1.5 million users to a mere 7.5 to 4.5 thousand Linux users, with a generous maximum of 18 thousand currently active on a Linux platform. That is still too small of a market to spend more money on than the amount of users active. It would not be a good business move, especially given how niche the Linux market is and the performance yields that come from Linux games.

Consider how much of a flop SteamOS currently is regardless of how a huge content provider tried to push the platform and still failed. Even with the biggest names in the industry pushing Linux, it doesn't yield a good argument to use the content providers as a safe heaven to invest into Linux. It is still a platform nobody uses when you consider the relative values. Even forcing users to use Linux, just to gain market share in the platform, would cause all the big names to go out of business. It's far from being a logical investment considering how even the biggest names fail to gain the users interest. And with the failure of SteamOS, well, it looks even worse to even consider investing into Linux. Like Linux has been, it is merely something to play around with on your spare time unless you are using it for more professional applications.
Edited by Domino - 4/22/14 at 10:02am
post #68 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Based on gross numbers, still a very small market. But the amount of people that use only Linux is much smaller. I wouldn't be surprised that less than 0.5% are actual dedicated Linux users, let alone, 0.2% are active. That would yield the current active 1.5 active users to a mere 7.5 to 4.5 thousand Linux users, with a generous maximum of 18 thousand currently active on a Linux platform. That is still too small of a market to spend more money on than the amount of users active. It would not be a good business move, especially given how niche the Linux market is and the performance yields that come from Linux games. Consider how much of a flop SteamOS currently is.

It's this kind of thinking that keeps things held back. And thus the circle continues.

There are no programs for Linux because "no one" uses it, but "no one" uses it because there are no programs.

Steam started to break this cycle though. We've gotten over 400 new games either new or ported since Steam came to Linux 2 years ago. That's more games than we had to begin with from the previous 20 years. We also got slightly better graphics drivers on both sides from Valve helping and Valve simply bringing Steam over and giving graphics companies a real reason to up their Linux game. Simply bringing the Steam client to Linux has already caused a pretty huge movement that is still going. The circle, while not completely broken, has a significant crack in it. I'm not one to say that "this is the year of linux" or any of that crap, but Linux got a pretty good shove and it's a huge start.



SteamOS is as much of a flop as it is because it fills an even smaller niche inside of another niche. Most Linux users, like most Windows users would rather just install the client and not an entire OS. SteamOS is good for 2 things, Steam in home streaming, and being free. This is the area where it shines, for gaming HTPC's where one doesn't have to set up the OS or install anything. And that is an extremely extremely extremely small niche within a niche which is why it fails. The idea of a strictly gaming operating system was a nice idea, but it really wasn't the time for it.

That coupled with the fact that most people using it don't seem to understand that it is at a alpha/beta stage and wasn't meant for prime time just yet. So it got over hyped and everyone and their dog started downloading it while not quite understanding it. Then were surprised and let down by the bugs that it had. A bunch of users figured they would dualboot it with their Windows installs which, quite frankly makes little to no sense. And just an overall plethora of people that shouldn't be using it were having troubles and then coming back to talk crap about it because of bugs.
post #69 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Based on gross numbers, still a very small market. But the amount of people that use only Linux is much smaller. I wouldn't be surprised that less than 0.5% are actual dedicated Linux users, let alone, 0.2% are active. That would yield the current active 1.5 active users to a mere 7.5 to 4.5 thousand Linux users, with a generous maximum of 18 thousand currently active on a Linux platform. That is still too small of a market to spend more money on than the amount of users active. It would not be a good business move, especially given how niche the Linux market is and the performance yields that come from Linux games. Consider how much of a flop SteamOS currently is.

It's this kind of thinking that keeps things held back. And thus the circle continues.

There are no programs for Linux because "no one" uses it, but "no one" uses it because there are no programs.

It's not this logic that holds back "good things" but rather "bad things". Linux, as a gaming platform, has clearly demonstrated that in practical use, the claims of OpenGL performance on the platform were falsified. What Steam claimed, and what the numbers actually yield, were two different stories. In it's essence, Linux has shown to provide no real world results in which warrants it as a platform to switch.

On the contrary, in which Linux does show good use for, is in specific closed environments or low end hardware (once you meet the requirements, all competition yields nearly the same performance results. The major benefit to Linux is that you can shrink it and run it on old hardware. But we know that the OS does not give enough overhead that once both requirements are met, that it takes a massive performance hit between platforms). And frankly, this is why Linux is widely used on many more platforms that its competition. As an OS, this is not the case. The actually yields a minimalistic OS has on gaming performance is next to nothing. This is comparing OpenGL performance values, given by Steam, on both platforms. The benefit was as low as 2%. And thus, as an OS, it shows no reason to make the switch.

This thinking is not holding back good alternatives but rather having us focus, or in these terms, invest our time and money into a platform that is actually a viable option. Linux is old, has had nearly as many years as Windows, if not longer, to have a maturity to compete, and outside of small tasks, it's just a headache to get the same, if not less use as compared to OSX and Windows.
Edited by Domino - 4/22/14 at 1:10pm
post #70 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by djriful View Post






Well that explains why it crashes.



i'm on windows 8.1 and i'm never going back to win7
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