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[WCCF] Intel Devil’s Canyon Launching on 2nd June 2014 - Page 8

post #71 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

i5 users have bigger problems than waiting for Slylake. They have an i5. Someone has to tell them hyperthreading is an enormous boost on anything highly multithreaded. It's not just virtual threads, they physically split the cache, and it's 2MB more of it.

That being said, I wouldn't want to promote Intel's sales. Those mongrels have even shrinked their die sizes now that enjoy a practical monopoly.

Screw them, use any ancient processor if it works. thumb.gifbiggrin.gif

Pretty sure I5 user are aware of HT benefits. For me the I7 offers a terrible value though, The unlocked i5 costs the user 33% less than the i7 yet it only offers gains in heavily threaded programs. its even worse value for gaming when the current i5 doesn't bottleneck any gpu at stock clocks.

That extra 33% should go into the GPU unless you have a specific need for the one of the i7 benefits.
Edited by Wirerat - 4/24/14 at 2:04am
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post #72 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

It's not just virtual threads, they physically split the cache, and it's 2MB more of it.

Hyperthreading doesn't physically split any cache level, which is fortunate, because this would almost certainly make performance worse.
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post #73 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Hyperthreading doesn't physically split any cache level, which is fortunate, because this would almost certainly make performance worse.

Split is a wrong word. Correction: They share the resources at the physical level. Those according to easily accessible info include: the execution engine, the caches, the system-bus interface and the firmware.

That means it's not software that does the sharing, the hardware actually attributes certain sections of the hardware itself to be used by a certain virtual thread at a time.

Making it in effect not totally virtual or at least not of the mediocrity of a software virtual thread. In any case it works, and we see it in practice.
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post #74 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

i5 users have bigger problems than waiting for Slylake. They have an i5. Someone has to tell them hyperthreading is an enormous boost on anything highly multithreaded. It's not just virtual threads, they physically split the cache, and it's 2MB more of it.

That being said, I wouldn't want to promote Intel's sales. Those mongrels have even shrinked their die sizes now that enjoy a practical monopoly.

Screw them, use any ancient processor if it works. thumb.gifbiggrin.gif

i7 is pretty pointless for most gamers right now - it costs about £78 more ($131) over here, and unless you have delid, it will just thermally limit you harder - if 4c4t reaches 80c at a given voltage and clock for x264, then i7 will reach about 92-93c.

Due to that i can clock 100-200mhz higher with HT off than with it on, and ht off actually performs better in every cpu limited game that i play because of that - though an exception would be made for bf4 and crysis 3, if i played them.

In terms of encoding speed, it's about 15% faster, but it cost 1.5x extra - and since i5 and nvenc are fast enough for dealing with live encoding, this is a much less time-critical point than "oh, your cpu/gpu is weaker than you'd like - guess you'll take a 25% fps hit!"

Of course, if you're delidding or if devil's canyon significantly changes the picture here, this will be different - but it's still a case of better performance in some loads, worse value in all realistic loads.
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post #75 of 114
Well you can allways buy the locked i7 Xeon version E3-1230v3 or the upcoming (maybe v4) for the price of the i5...
post #76 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

if 4c4t reaches 80c at a given voltage and clock for x264, then i7 will reach about 92-93c.

That's a humorous argument. An i7 is monumentally faster on video encoding that an equivalent i5. Of course it's going to work harder.
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post #77 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

That's a humorous argument. An i7 is monumentally faster on video encoding that an equivalent i5. Of course it's going to work harder.

It's not an argument, it's just a statement that you pay for that ~20% faster clock for clock and as a result have to lower clocks across the board, even for games that don't benefit from HT, to use that kind of overclock as a 24/7. Even with two profiles it's a bit of a pain.

I have to have HT off half the time for best performance, thus i probably wouldn't pay $130 extra for it when thermally limited. When you're not, it's fair game if you want absolute performance over value
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post #78 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

If the pentiums get that good then there's no reason to get the more expensive, fully enabled chips and that'll suck real bad for revenue.
FX6300 is no where near i5 performance. It is only faster than i3 on a well written threaded games like battlefield,crysis 3. Most of the time it trails behind I3.

So a 4.5-5GHz Haswell Pentium might be just as quick or faster in gaming vs the FX6300s
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post #79 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

It's not an argument, it's just a statement that you pay for that ~20% faster clock for clock and as a result have to lower clocks across the board, even for games that don't benefit from HT, to use that kind of overclock as a 24/7. Even with two profiles it's a bit of a pain.

I have to have HT off half the time for best performance, thus i probably wouldn't pay $130 extra for it when thermally limited. When you're not, it's fair game if you want absolute performance over value

You probably play a game that needs up to 4 threads and extrapolate for all people.

Newsflash, some of us actually use more than 4 threads.

Quite a bit.
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post #80 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

You probably play a game that needs up to 4 threads and extrapolate for all people.

Newsflash, some of us actually use more than 4 threads.

Quite a bit.

Yea, those people buy i7 thumb.gif

I'm not saying that they shouldn't.

That just doesn't mean that it makes sense for an average gamer who can choose 4670k+290 or 4770k+770 (both aftermarket cooled) - the price gap is that big here.
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