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[Yahoo-Finance] AMD to Host Core Innovation Update News Conference - Page 9

post #81 of 325
Chooo chooo, all aboard the hype-train biggrin.gif
post #82 of 325
If AMD is talking about core innovation, the world wants to know what follows Excavator. The wretched Bulldozer design almost destroyed AMD. Its the cat core Bobcat/Jaguar/Puma which has kept AMD alive. AMD must have started work on a new core when the first Bulldozer released. They must have seen how badly bulldozer fared against Intel's Sandybridge and realised that a new core was the only way of ever regaining competitiveness at the high end desktop and server markets.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/the-bulldozer-review-amd-fx8150-tested

Jim Keller (designer of Athlon64 and the Apple Ax chips) came back in Aug 2012.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6129/apple-a4a5-designer-k8-lead-architect-jim-keller-returns-to-amd

By late 2015 or early 2016 a FX / Opteron with a new core on a TSMC 16FF+ or Samsung 14 FINFET is very much possible.

btw that die shot is Beema / Mullins. here is a comparison with Kabini. My guess is its built at TSMC 28HPM. Is that a DDR3 / DDR4 DRAM controller. If it is then its interesting. smile.gif

https://ad.moontoast.com/7e9f5f0e-c4ca-11e3-927b-123139027524?optimize=direct
https://i.imgur.com/yzhxa6p.png

Given how densely packed Hawaii was wrt Tahiti / Pitcairn and GK100, AMD could easily have improved packing density given that TSMC 28 HPM is well understood and mature process.
Edited by raghu78 - 4/24/14 at 4:55am
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post #83 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattifnatten View Post

Chooo chooo, all aboard the hype-train biggrin.gif

Next stop: Disappointment Heights!
post #84 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

They must have seen how badly bulldozer fared against Intel's Sandybridge and realised that a new core was the only way

The design had little to do with it. Intel aren't wizards of design compared to AMD and AMD aren't idiots compared to Intel. Intel just dominates on the manufacturing level. Their 32nm technology was fundamentally better than 28nm of others. And you compare them to 22nm? Bah, they are not even trying.

They even shrunk their own dies lately if you noticed.

They are a practical monopoly.
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post #85 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

The design had little to do with it. Intel aren't wizards of design compared to AMD and AMD aren't idiots compared to Intel. Intel just dominates on the manufacturing level. Their 32nm technology was fundamentally better than 28nm of others. And you compare them to 22nm? Bah, they are not even trying.

They even shrunk their own dies lately if you noticed.

They are a practical monopoly.

I have to disagree. Bulldozer is a failed design. You just need to compare 15w/ 25w versions of Kabini and Beema against 15w/17w/25w of Richland and Kaveri on CPU performance to realize that AMD failed miserably with Bulldozer. at same TDP and on same 28nm process, the big cores cannot beat the small cores significantly. For Intel, Haswell crushes Baytrail at 10w. Haswell's ULV parts are in a different league compared to Baytrail-M and Baytrail-D.

I can agree that AMD needs the latest process tech to compete with Intel. But even on the same 28nm process, Jaguar/Beema embarasses Richland/Kaveri.

Bulldozer's flaws -

1. Very poor single thread performance
2. Poor cache and memory performance
3. Poor FP performance.
4. Poor perf/ sq mm and perf/watt.

AMD needs a grounds up new core to fix that. AMD should go for a low clock, high IPC design. the high clock design has failed always from a perf/watt perspective - Pentium 4 and Bulldozer
Edited by raghu78 - 4/24/14 at 6:03am
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post #86 of 325
fateswarm speaks the truth there. AMD very well knew that Bulldozer wouldn't outperform Sandy Bridge or whatever Intel had at the time, at least not in single-thread, and they didn't keep it a secret. AMD engineers around that time were very open and stated to everyone that the design ethos of Bulldozer wasn't about strong single-thread, and that it was focused more on heavy parallel processing (hence the whole octocore thing.) I believe a more specific quote (paraphrased here) was along the lines that "IPC would be on-par or slightly below Stars", but of course the enthusiast community (most of it, anyway) didn't wanna believe that and instead decided to believe (literally out of nowhere, with no evidence) that it would be an "Intel killer". Intel simply has the massive advantage of having tons of R&D funds and their own fabs. No amount of magic can really turn those facts around.

As for Jim Keller, he was also somewhat involved with K7's design and had a stint at DEC, the same company which housed the DEC Alpha team, which designed the Alpha 21264 chip which Bulldozer was basically based off of. To call him a genius or a wizard would be an understatement with the work he's done throughout the years, but it will be quite some time before any parts that have had his direct engineering influence will arrive to consumers. Probably 2016 at the earliest, since whatever form Excavator is in, despite the delay, most likely wasn't touched by him. His designs are most likely in whatever core architectures would succeed K15 and possibly the current Cat cores as well.
post #87 of 325
No one ever releases new significant technology at any event related to facebook or finance.

But 1.2ghz frequency makes me think this is Mullins, probably 2w SDP.

It's sort of funny that AMD is positioning themselves as the premium x86 tablet and Intel is pushing into super-budget territory by paying OEMs to use their chips. I don't know what will work out better. AMD has the chance to get a position in a very good x86 product, like x86 Surface. Intel will try and flood emerging markets like China.

The problem though is that the tablet is more of a luxury device. People in emerging markets need a full computer, not a watered down Windows RT or Android tablet. They need a complete desktop environment on their computer with a serious keyboard. I think AMD is poised to do better by leveraging their GPU advantage. Don't forget, notebookcheck rates HD8330 of A4-5000 higher than the best HD 4000 graphics. Intel's mobile iGPUs with have significantly reduced clock speed has no chance to compete.
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post #88 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

fateswarm speaks the truth there. AMD very well knew that Bulldozer wouldn't outperform Sandy Bridge or whatever Intel had at the time, at least not in single-thread, and they didn't keep it a secret. AMD engineers around that time were very open and stated to everyone that the design ethos of Bulldozer wasn't about strong single-thread, and that it was focused more on heavy parallel processing (hence the whole octocore thing.) I believe a more specific quote (paraphrased here) was along the lines that "IPC would be on-par or slightly below Stars", but of course the enthusiast community (most of it, anyway) didn't wanna believe that and instead decided to believe (literally out of nowhere, with no evidence) that it would be an "Intel killer". Intel simply has the massive advantage of having tons of R&D funds and their own fabs. No amount of magic can really turn those facts around.

As for Jim Keller, he was also somewhat involved with K7's design and had a stint at DEC, the same company which housed the DEC Alpha team, which designed the Alpha 21264 chip which Bulldozer was basically based off of. To call him a genius or a wizard would be an understatement with the work he's done throughout the years, but it will be quite some time before any parts that have had his direct engineering influence will arrive to consumers. Probably 2016 at the earliest, since whatever form Excavator is in, despite the delay, most likely wasn't touched by him. His designs are most likely in whatever core architectures would succeed K15 and possibly the current Cat cores as well.

Sorry but Jim Keller's works have been outstanding - K8 Athlon 64 and the Ax chips. I am pretty sure Keller was involved in the development of Apple's Cyclone core. iphone 5s launched in Sep 2013. These chips would normally take a year from tapeout to high volume production. So A7 was finished by Aug/Sep 2012 when Jim Keller left Apple for AMD. Given that it takes atleast 2 - 3 years to design a CPU core its easy to see that Jim Keller spearheaded the Cyclone core development. So if you look at his works in the past decade - K8 Athlon 64 and Cyclone, he has worked on the two most influential CPU cores of the last decade after Intel's Nehalem and Intel's Merom (which was the father of Core 2 Duo)
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post #89 of 325
I'm not sure why you told me that, as if I weren't aware of any of it. Did you miss the part where I said to call Jim Keller a genius would be an understatement? Did my post somehow come off as undermining his work or something to you, lol?
post #90 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

I'm not sure why you told me that, as if I weren't aware of any of it. Did you miss the part where I said to call Jim Keller a genius would be an understatement? Did my post somehow come off as undermining his work or something to you, lol?

sorry i misunderstood. thumb.gif
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