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[ET] IBM unveils Power8 and OpenPower pincer attack on Intel’s x86 server monopoly - Page 9

post #81 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFaux View Post

IBM has a Fab that is already at 22nm, what do they need GF for?
Joined ventire meaning co-developed. I'm not at all sure if it is though.
post #82 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryDemon View Post

I think AMD should join OpenPower, license Power8, and create the first Power8 & x86 & ARM compatible CPU. biggrin.gif

Not sure why anyone would want that sort of massive flexibility, but it would be cool.

Well - there was some speculation in AMD SoC thread what would happen if they would do a large die with their new Jaguar cores which were around 3.5 mm2 per unit. In a nutshell they could theoretically do a chip about half the size of the IBM one having 96 cores with one thread per core. However - it would be ofc a bit different market as having 96 cores in a SoC with single channel RAM would be .. well .. kinda pointless. At 600 mm2 they could do 128 core chip with small amount of space left for other gadgets - assuming they drop the GPU part of the SoC ofc. The IBM chip is pretty impressive. Wonder if someone will try to pull off "ARM revolution" and start selling PC's based on power8 - it sure seems like remote possibility because of lacking software ecosystem for home users - but who knows. If nothing else there will probably be some third party manufacturers for the servers though.
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post #83 of 166
The nice thing about this is that Nvidia will be teaming up with IBM to introduce their NVLink and bring compute to the POWER platform.

I only hope that eventually some member of the OpenPOIWER consortium makes a dev kit affordable for the likes of us.
post #84 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFaux View Post

GF28 should be a 28nm process and IBM already had 22nm capability. Are you trying to say that GF is abandoning their 28nm node on the off chance that they buy IBMs fab? I'm just not seeing the connection between this chip and GF28.

Where did I say this chip is connected to GloFo 28nm (which is bulk atm) in any way at all? IBM,GloFo and Samsung were fab "partners" (Piledriver chips are made using very similar tech to this Power8 giant) ,now that IBM wants out, GloFo naturally is considering their share. Btw GloFo 28nm was very late to the party (like 2 years after TSMC 28nm), of course they want to move out of it ASAP.
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post #85 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post


No, completely different design and usage.

I was responding to the bottleneck comment. As a founding member of OpenPower, Nvidia has been working to more tightly integrate its Tesla GPU coprocessors with Power8 processors and IBM has designated Teslas as the GPU accelerator of choice for Power8.

Openpower is just not taking aim at x86, but also the Apple echo system in other markets.
Edited by provost - 4/24/14 at 4:22am
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post #86 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post


AIX/Unix is an OS that is decades old that can properly manage all the cores. Clusters use multiple-OSes since each system of the cluster is independent.

C is a high level language..... and almost all high level languages support multi-threading.

A developer does not have to implement an OS... they have to implement code that runs within an OS.

Very few people code in assembly as modern compilers do a better job anyways for the 99.99%.

Software has not been about extracting every bit of performance out hardware for over a decade now. (The exceptions would be HPC, datacenter scale software, or embedded systems.) Hardware is cheap.... getting working software is vastly more expensive.

Didn't think about splitting up the clusters into subsets. Granted it didn't put much thought into at first. But that's one of the reasons I love programming. So many different ways to skin the cat tongue.gif

C98 does not support multithreading out of the box. C++ supports it but not C. C is not a high level language by any means, it's a mid level language. With assembly and plain binary permutations being low level. Only way you could get lower is by changing the internals of the hardware. If you insist on putting C in the high level area, would you mind pm'ing me so we can discuss it further? Always fun learning a new way to see something.

But messing with the operating system is so much fun. The more you know the platform you work on, the easier it is to RE.
post #87 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madog View Post

Didn't think about splitting up the clusters into subsets. Granted it didn't put much thought into at first. But that's one of the reasons I love programming. So many different ways to skin the cat tongue.gif

C98 does not support multithreading out of the box. C++ supports it but not C. C is not a high level language by any means, it's a mid level language. With assembly and plain binary permutations being low level. Only way you could get lower is by changing the internals of the hardware. If you insist on putting C in the high level area, would you mind pm'ing me so we can discuss it further? Always fun learning a new way to see something.

But messing with the operating system is so much fun. The more you know the platform you work on, the easier it is to RE.

A couple things.

First: C definitely has had multithreading. It's the language that I use to learned to multithreading and it was long before the c11 standard. It simply required using POSIX libraries.

Second: C is a High level language. A high level language is a language to which no other language is compiled. Meaning no language is compiled and creates a C program.

Assembly is an Intermidate language. Other languages compile to it and it is compiled further to other languages. It's not the last stop

Binary is a low level language. it's the last stop.

C is a language that allows (and forces) you to do a lot of detailed work (everyone should be forced to learn proper memory management when they first program) but result is it's a very powerful language
Edited by serothis - 4/24/14 at 6:58am
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post #88 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madog View Post

Didn't think about splitting up the clusters into subsets. Granted it didn't put much thought into at first. But that's one of the reasons I love programming. So many different ways to skin the cat tongue.gif

C98 does not support multithreading out of the box. C++ supports it but not C. C is not a high level language by any means, it's a mid level language. With assembly and plain binary permutations being low level. Only way you could get lower is by changing the internals of the hardware. If you insist on putting C in the high level area, would you mind pm'ing me so we can discuss it further? Always fun learning a new way to see something.

But messing with the operating system is so much fun. The more you know the platform you work on, the easier it is to RE.

Yeah, generally clusters are considered where a single system is comprised of multiple independent systems.

C is a high-level language.... well, it was. Back in the day, C was considered high-level. Anything above assembly was considered high-level. Today, there are many higher level languages so you are correct that it could be considered a mid-level today. Then again, it's subjective.

Yeah, but the vast majority of development is not performance optimization but requirements gathering and implementation.... and keeping it all working.


Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

A couple things.

First: C definitely has had multithreading. It's the language that I use to learned to multithreading and it was long before the c11 standard. It simply required using POSIX libraries.

Second: C is a High level language. A high level language is a language to which no other language is compiled. Meaning no language is compiled and creates a C program.

Assembly is an Intermidate language. Other languages compile to it and it is compiled further to other languages. It's not the last stop

Binary is a low level language. it's the last stop.

C is a language that allows (and forces) you to do a lot of detailed work (everyone should be forced to learn proper memory management when they first program) but result is it's a very powerful language
It's a bit more relative and ambiguous though. This is especially true as we get higher and higher languages.

For example:
Quote:
In computer science, a low-level programming language is a programming language that provides little or no abstraction from a computer's instruction set architecture. Generally this refers to either machine code or assembly language.

Edited by DuckieHo - 4/24/14 at 7:07am
Once again...
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post #89 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

A couple things.

First: C definitely has had multithreading. It's the language that I use to learned to multithreading and it was long before the c11 standard. It simply required using POSIX libraries.

Second: C is a High level language. A high level language is a language to which no other language is compiled. Meaning no language is compiled and creates a C program.

Assembly is an Intermidate language. Other languages compile to it and it is compiled further to other languages. It's not the last stop

Binary is a low level language. it's the last stop.

C is a language that allows (and forces) you to do a lot of detailed work (everyone should be forced to learn proper memory management when they first program) but result is it's a very powerful language
It's a bit more relative and ambiguous though. This is especially true as we get higher and higher languages.

For example:
Quote:
In computer science, a low-level programming language is a programming language that provides little or no abstraction from a computer's instruction set architecture. Generally this refers to either machine code or assembly language.

people generally refer to assembly as a low level language because that's the lowest level any realistically ever touches. But given that it still has to be reduced further, in my view, that's an intermediate language.

As for high level language...There are languages that have more features and in many cases allow programmers to be lazier but they're not higher level (in an academic sense) in that they aren't compiled to to create a C program.
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post #90 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFaux View Post

I think this chip is being made at the IBM Fab in Hopewell Junction, New York.

I thought they closed that campus? Maybe just layoffs.
     
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