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[ET] IBM unveils Power8 and OpenPower pincer attack on Intel’s x86 server monopoly - Page 10

post #91 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

people generally refer to assembly as a low level language because that's the lowest level any realistically ever touches. But given that it still has to be reduced further, in my view, that's an intermediate language.

As for high level language...There are languages that have more features and in many cases allow programmers to be lazier but they're not higher level (in an academic sense) in that they aren't compiled to to create a C program.
I agree but we must be old timers! tongue.gif In an academic, our assumptions are correct.

I can see how newer developers might see newer languages as higher higher level languages. In that case, C would then fall to a mid-level language come from top-down view.
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post #92 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

250 watt TDP thumb.gif


Ya but, AMD has near that much with one of their 8 thread CPUs...


With 96 threads and that massive amount of cache, I find the TDP to be quite acceptable and amazingly low really...
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post #93 of 166
So how many instances of PONG do you think this thing can run simultaneously?
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post #94 of 166
I use these to bitcoin mine because they are great and my ROI will be the best. I am so smart thumb.gif
    
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post #95 of 166

One of the big caveats of these highly specialized chips is the memory interface (BUS), how wide it is, and how each Core is allowed to latch it per interrupt & clock cycle. There's a limit of course, and having a 1000 cores wont help past a certain point if it ends up being a memory bottleneck getting to required data for each core to use per clock cycle.

 

Of course Cache helps tremendously but there still a point of diminishing returns with a large core count.

 

Hence those of us that pay attention realize why Volta/Pascal in the GPU world really need that on die local/stacked memory. Realtime Fluid dynamics incoming i think...

post #96 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankzro View Post

I use these to bitcoin mine because they are great and my ROI will be the best. I am so smart thumb.gif

I would use it to replace my central heating thumb.gif
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post #97 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

A couple things.

First: C definitely has had multithreading. It's the language that I use to learned to multithreading and it was long before the c11 standard. It simply required using POSIX libraries.

Second: C is a High level language. A high level language is a language to which no other language is compiled. Meaning no language is compiled and creates a C program.

Assembly is an Intermidate language. Other languages compile to it and it is compiled further to other languages. It's not the last stop

Binary is a low level language. it's the last stop.

C is a language that allows (and forces) you to do a lot of detailed work (everyone should be forced to learn proper memory management when they first program) but result is it's a very powerful language

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Yeah, generally clusters are considered where a single system is comprised of multiple independent systems.

C is a high-level language.... well, it was. Back in the day, C was considered high-level. Anything above assembly was considered high-level. Today, there are many higher level languages so you are correct that it could be considered a mid-level today. Then again, it's subjective.

Yeah, but the vast majority of development is not performance optimization but requirements gathering and implementation.... and keeping it all working.
It's a bit more relative and ambiguous though. This is especially true as we get higher and higher languages.

For example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

people generally refer to assembly as a low level language because that's the lowest level any realistically ever touches. But given that it still has to be reduced further, in my view, that's an intermediate language.

As for high level language...There are languages that have more features and in many cases allow programmers to be lazier but they're not higher level (in an academic sense) in that they aren't compiled to to create a C program.


Isn't anything that's not plain binary code supposed to be high level sense they'll have to be compiled to machine code first?also since C++ can handle memory management manually and offers some low level features why isn't it considered as low as C?and ya I'm pretty much a NOOB so sorry for the NOOB-ish questions smile.gif
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post #98 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghoxt View Post

One of the big caveats of these highly specialized chips is the memory interface (BUS), how wide it is, and how each Core is allowed to latch it per interrupt & clock cycle. There's a limit of course, and having a 1000 cores wont help past a certain point if it ends up being a memory bottleneck getting to required data for each core to use per clock cycle.

Of course Cache helps tremendously but there still a point of diminishing returns with a large core count.

Hence those of us that pay attention realize why Volta/Pascal in the GPU world really need that on die local/stacked memory. Realtime Fluid dynamics incoming i think...
POWER8 isn't a specialized chip. This is a general purpose processor just like Xeons or ARM Cortex-A9s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABD EL HAMEED View Post

Isn't anything that's not plain binary code supposed to be high level sense they'll have to be compiled to machine code first?also since C++ can handle memory management manually and offers some low level features why isn't it considered as low as C?and ya I'm pretty much a NOOB so sorry for the NOOB-ish questions smile.gif
It's relative!

Assembly people call machine code low-level and assembly high-level.
C people call machine code/assembly low-level and C high-level.
C++ people call machine code/assembly low-level, C mid-level and C++ high-level.
Java people call machine code/assembly low-level, bye-code/C mid-level, and Java high-level.
etc....
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post #99 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABD EL HAMEED View Post


Isn't anything that's not plain binary code supposed to be high level sense they'll have to be compiled to machine code first?also since C++ can handle memory management manually and offers some low level features why isn't it considered as low as C?and ya I'm pretty much a NOOB so sorry for the NOOB-ish questions smile.gif

Don't worry. noob questions are a good thing because that means you're genuinely trying to learn something new which is a good thing.

A VERY brief over view of how programming works is this. Keep in mind it's been a while since I've written a compiler (college days) so I'm skipping a lot of things and I might get a few bits wrong.

Programmers write code in a language (C/C++/java/etc). these languages that we typically program in are considered "high" level languages because we can actually comprehend them.

When a program is compiled it is translated to Intermediate representations.(tokens then trees, etc). this is where a lot of the compiler optimizations happen.

After that the code is trans formed into Assembly which is generally considered a Intermediate language. Something that we can read/understand and write but something that most programmers dread touching.

All of the code generated up to this point is "generic" code. code that can run on basically any machine given certain requirements.

After this is when code is changed and modified to run specifically on YOUR machine. i.e. specific registers, memory assignment, etc. Even more optimizations (tailored for your hardware) happen here. Once all of this happens you can no longer copy/paste this code onto another computer and expect it to work.

---

As DuckieHo said, the terms "high level" "low level" change depending on who you talk to. but they're all wrong tongue.gif
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post #100 of 166
IBM isn't a hit and miss company. It doesn't just make a chip hoping gamers will use it. They are extremely focused. They are focused on big businesses. They do not care about desktops or even most workstations. This is the case since the 90s.

That makes them quite boring.

Though thanks for the IBM PC.
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