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[EG] Confirmed: Watch Dogs PS4 900p, Xbox One 792p, both 30fps - Page 24

post #231 of 387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyumi View Post

year 2005 - PS3/Xbox 360 - DirectX 9.0C - 30~60FPS, 720~1080p
year 2013 - PS4/Xbox One - DirectX 11.1 - 30~60FPS, 720~1080p

Pretty sad if you ask me. 8 years and the only thing that changed was the DirectX level. Whatever happened to electronics doubling in speeds every 2 years? The reason is obvious, Sony/Microsoft made the PS4/Xbox One at cost (underpowered) while the PS3/Xbox360 lost them hundreds of dollars (overpowered) on each console sale. I guess I can't really hold it against them when Sony is still loosing hundreds of millions year over year even with a successful PS4 launch. Oh and here comes the PC:

year 2005 - PC - DirectX 9.0c - 60FPS, 1600p
year 2013 - PC - DirectX 11.1 - 60FPS, 2160p

Unfortunately in the year 2005 it was only a few thousand dollars to reach those numbers. Now in 2013 we're looking at several thousand dollars. I'm not sure if I can still support this hobby anymore at the rate it's going (hint: Nvidia's new GPU pricing strategies). I highly doubt in another 8 years (2021?) when the next consoles come out they will even run 4k and 30FPS. I'd wager 1080p 60FPS most likely with 4k support for low 2D and/or Arcade style games.

Indeed, they made them at a cost, Sony was losing tons with the PS3, not sure about Microsoft with the 360 though, but they had their Xbox Live subscription which probably helped keep them afloat, PS Plus I think is mandatory for online games on the PS4 now, except F2P games unless I am mistaken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

I think 4k today is actually easier then 1600p in 05. Back then multi gpu setups didn't really work so even if you threw a crap ton of money on an rig you where still more then anything limited by available hardware.

Honestly Sony could have made a much more powerful console. Even just bumping up the price $50 would have enabled them to enhance the hardware that much more. The real reason why the PS4 specs are what they are is thanks to the Xbone. Sony simply set out to build something that was faster then the competition instead of trying to push the envelope like they did with the PS3.

They started of with an faster GPU. When final specs where coming in they noticed that M$ was going for 8GB of DDR3 while they where going for 4GB GDDR5 so they bumped it up to 8.

In case of the CPU's I actually aren't sure what the final speeds ended up as. Both started at 1.6Ghz but as final binning came in at least M$ raised that to 1.75Ghz while Sony ended up officially sticking to 1.6Ghz but bench marks show that they put in some sort of boost tech or something as the PS4 still manages to pull ahead to the Xbone in at least some of the CPU tests.

source --> http://vr-zone.com/articles/sony-reveals-ps4s-cpu-clock-frequency-runs-8-x-1-6-ghz-43-times-powerful-ps2/73617.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=sony-reveals-ps4s-cpu-clock-frequency-runs-8-x-1-6-ghz-43-times-powerful-ps2


I think the two horse race (as Nintendo is content to stick to its own little niche) is really hurting console gaming. It would be real nice if some one could shake things up a bit. Things like the Ouya and other micro consoles aren't really enough and Valve is taking its sweat time with the steam box (is that ever going to get somewhere). How about it SEGA? Feel like making Dreamcast II tongue.gif

A real shame about Sega, the DreamCast was marvelous, Phantasy Star Online always comes to mind when I think about it.
It's probably too late to get back into the game now for them, Microsoft and Sony have somewhat built up a reputation with the consumers and especially the developers so if they were to step in now it probably would be really difficult and they might not even have the funds to do it, their console division is probably non existent now.

I'm so disappointed in Microsoft, I dont understand how they messed up so much, they're practically not even competing the the hardware department, DDR3 seals the deal and has banished the system to sub 1080p for practically the entire generation unless they can work wonders with the edram, it's ridiculously face palm worthy.
Their live reveal was putting me to sleep in my chair, and this was during the day, Sony's live reveal kept me up all night into the morning, why? because they actually focused on GAMING, that is the main reason for these systems right?

The seemingly superior media functionality and the Kinect are possibly the top unique selling points of the console, alongside the exclusive titles and software of the system, but once you remove the Kinect as they have chosen to do you are losing one of the major unique selling points.

As Seyumi said they're making them at a cost, If Microsoft didn't try to force the Kinect on consumers, which they are now removing which makes the whole decision of putting the Kinect into the bundle invain (Unless they aim to sell it cheaper than the PS4), because with the resources they used to implement the Kinect, they probably could of easily opted for more powerful hardware, something between a cut-down or under-clocked higher end GPU, like a 7870XT or a 7970 if the die space is capable and the heat and power consumption constraints too, and have proper graphics memory! rolleyes.gif
Good lord what where they thinking with DDR3, that is the biggest mess up next to the always on DRM they attempted to pull off. doh.gif
Edited by TopicClocker - 5/16/14 at 4:52am
post #232 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by theturbofd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyumi View Post

year 2005 - PS3/Xbox 360 - DirectX 9.0C - 30~60FPS, 720~1080p
year 2013 - PS4/Xbox One - DirectX 11.1 - 30~60FPS, 720~1080p

Pretty sad if you ask me. 8 years and the only thing that changed was the DirectX level. Whatever happened to electronics doubling in speeds every 2 years? The reason is obvious, Sony/Microsoft made the PS4/Xbox One at cost (underpowered) while the PS3/Xbox360 lost them hundreds of dollars (overpowered) on each console sale. I guess I can't really hold it against them when Sony is still loosing hundreds of millions year over year even with a successful PS4 launch. Oh and here comes the PC:

year 2005 - PC - DirectX 9.0c - 60FPS, 1600p
year 2013 - PC - DirectX 11.1 - 60FPS, 2160p

Unfortunately in the year 2005 it was only a few thousand dollars to reach those numbers. Now in 2013 we're looking at several thousand dollars. I'm not sure if I can still support this hobby anymore at the rate it's going (hint: Nvidia's new GPU pricing strategies). I highly doubt in another 8 years (2021?) when the next consoles come out they will even run 4k and 30FPS. I'd wager 1080p 60FPS most likely with 4k support for low 2D and/or Arcade style games.

ya did you forget the cost for the builds during 2005 to hit 1600p with ease? Did you also forget the cost to get constant 60fps at 4k? Now go try that with a $400 budget and let me know how that goes. You also must have forgotten that there's only a select few games that hit 1080p last gen.

Too many people forget that a "$400" console doesn't actually cost $400 and are nearly always sold at a loss for several years. I say nearly always because it seems that neither the PS4 nor Xbox One are sold at a loss. To me all that says is they're not really using the greatest tech. And considering that nearly every owner of a Xbox One/PS4 already spent ~$500+ on a retail PC of some kind, they've already spent what such a gaming PC would cost.

Besides, pay2play. Can't expect to get tons more performance, visuals, and functionality for free. Last night I was downloading some DLC for The Last of Us on PS3 (I just picked up the season pass as it's about to go away), and the process just felt so awkward and awful. I was trying to download all the free extra stuff (wearables, skill unlocks, etc.) and I kept grunting wishing I could just click each one in a new tab to download them all. Nope. Click #1, click download, wait 30 seconds, go back, click #2, rinse and repeat 10-20 times.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 5/16/14 at 6:10am
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post #233 of 387
Sony's weekly sales enticed me to go digital only but the inability to manage the download list is annoying.
post #234 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

Too many people forget that a "$400" console doesn't actually cost $400 and are nearly always sold at a loss for several years. I say nearly always because it seems that neither the PS4 nor Xbox One are sold at a loss. To me all that says is they're not really using the greatest tech. And considering that nearly every owner of a Xbox One/PS4 already spent ~$500+ on a retail PC of some kind, they've already spent what such a gaming PC would cost.

Besides, pay2play. Can't expect to get tons more performance, visuals, and functionality for free. Last night I was downloading some DLC for The Last of Us on PS3 (I just picked up the season pass as it's about to go away), and the process just felt so awkward and awful. I was trying to download all the free extra stuff (wearables, skill unlocks, etc.) and I kept grunting wishing I could just click each one in a new tab to download them all. Nope. Click #1, click download, wait 30 seconds, go back, click #2, rinse and repeat 10-20 times.

True but it's been stated by sony that it cost them $380 to make.
post #235 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomlord52 View Post

This gen sure is going to be fun in 2018+.

These games came out on the same console, about 5 years apart. It always takes around 3-4 years to get the full performance out of a console at least and the difference is drastic..especially when you consider the fact that they still backport them to older consoles too although this generation being all x86 may change that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAr View Post

I have 2 gtx titans I'm not sure if I need a 3rd one to max WD?
What you guys think?

Not even close to maxing it, you'll need 4 Titan-Zs in UltraSLI™
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomlord52 View Post

Right. Want to source that? Because I've got a bunch of sources that suggest that its either maxed out, or very, very close to maxed out. Not this silly "60%" number you've pulled from nowhere.

My HD7950 was once at 100% usage and maxed out, then AMD released an optimized driver for it and I still got 20% extra performance.

Plus, all those people somehow getting more performance out of the same maxed out card with Mantle...Optimization can make it or break it, and they're going to find tricks specific to the Jaguar and GCN architectures even if x86 isn't new. (Which is a fact shared by Power, MIPS, etc yet you still saw improvements from them as the consoles aged)
    
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post #236 of 387
Sony did lose money on ps3 but much of it was bluray player, cell and xdr ram.

One thing not many seem to realize, maybe some weren't around in 2005 or not into the parts as we are today for the average joe is the power consumption

Your high end GPU in 2005 was 70-100W.

Think about that for a second, how easy is it to put one of those in a console, its doable but even then the consoles has issues in cooling.
PS3 and 360 ran in the 170W range at launch. They only saw decent noise levels and reliability when they got to around 130W total.This is a mainstream device and movie player, multimedia box. Jasper model (x360) was the first reliable version at 150w total power and fairly quiet.

You try to spec a console in 2012/13, if you want to stay at or under 150W your only options are 7790/78307850 type GPU, they have to stick to 70-90w for the gpu. PC specification moved way past 70W for a GPU to 150W and 250-300W for a single GPU.
A 7950 is around 150W, just the GPU. They're not going to build a 300W console, nor a 250W console.

Around 7870 spec could maybe have been done which would be like the PS3/360 in power for the GPU but Mark Cerny said when they unvield the PS4 that they specifically went for less power consumption than PS3. These small box systems are much nicer to live with when running 100-150W in total and less problems.

My option would be to wait for something like Maxwell for performance and power. You could maintain 1080p with a decent progression of graphics. These new consoles just shy of doing that, more the One. PS4 can just do it. What will help them is lesser cost effective techniques.

MS made the mistake of going too mainstream and gave up console budget and performance to a fancy camera. PS4 did a decent job for a smart but pretty powerful system.

Think what would've happend if both Sony and MS specced a system 5 years after the 360, the answer is the 5770 becasue of power consumption. Not very good is it.

My only con to all that is I think even console gamers want a gaming system, the watching movie stats are misleading. The early adopters can take a console failure, can take more noise. You can reduce power over time and let the more casual guy pick up the revision 2 years later. I would just say to hell with it i'm building a large noisy 250W system for the core console gamer.

Finally, funnily enough PS4 and Xbox One are making headlines for being a bit power hungry.
Edited by routek - 5/16/14 at 5:09pm
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awesome, thx for those. When was that stream? Is there a full video somewhere?
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post #239 of 387
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Originally Posted by Cpyro View Post

awesome, thx for those. When was that stream? Is there a full video somewhere?

No clue someone on reddit found the stream and made the gifs
post #240 of 387

this console generation is pitiful, it will be a short cycle.... they should have been ahead of pc gaming for their first year...why they put these gimped gpu's in there is beyond me... they both should be running 7970s...this was the high-end gpu of the generation gpu they're using.. not a gimped, under clocked 7870, or 7790. 

 

so disappointing.

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