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[Ars] Top ISPs threaten to innovate less, spend less on network upgrades - Page 9

post #81 of 101
Just saw this on twitter:

post #82 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelionpiper View Post

How is this commerce between states, other nations or the indian tribes? This is commerce between private parties…

so is receiving electricity.
but it became a "requirement" of the new modern life so electricic companies were labled as utilities so they could no longer act like the ISPs are currently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Well, frankly there is no exact wording for it right now as it doesn't exist in this country.

In countries that do have the classification, or are generally treated as such, there is no guarantee of speeds - although there is a loose pricing structure that is somewhat followed. When it comes to guaranteeing speeds you really can't, from a technology standpoint. Not only do we not have the technology to provide a structure that we could even dream of starting to guarantee speeds, but there are too many things that could impact speeds at any given moment and open up a company to some sort of liability for "not delivering".

i didnt mean guarenteed speeds per se, but more of an "even availability" for each person that pays for the service.
kind of like we get with current phone lines, or power.
Edited by t00sl0w - 5/15/14 at 9:44am
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post #83 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Well, frankly there is no exact wording for it right now as it doesn't exist in this country.

In countries that do have the classification, or are generally treated as such, there is no guarantee of speeds - although there is a loose pricing structure that is somewhat followed. When it comes to guaranteeing speeds you really can't, from a technology standpoint. Not only do we not have the technology to provide a structure that we could even dream of starting to guarantee speeds, but there are too many things that could impact speeds at any given moment and open up a company to some sort of liability for "not delivering".

You can't guarantee a maximum speed but you can set a minimum. What we need are minimum standards. It is horrendous that a company is allowed to charge $45 for a speed that may not even meet the minimum advertised rating for an "up to 3 mbp/s" connection.

While not everyone is going to have access to a 100 Mb/s internet connection there should absolutely be a minimum required for everyone. Make it 5 Mb/s for a land line connection and price it accordingly.

So many companies expect people to have access to the internet that not having it greatly cripples ability to work. Having an overpriced underperforming and unreliable internet connection is just as bad as having no internet connection. It really should be a utility.
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post #84 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

You can't guarantee a maximum speed but you can set a minimum. What we need are minimum standards. It is horrendous that a company is allowed to charge $45 for a speed that may not even meet the minimum advertised rating for an "up to 3 mbp/s" connection.

While not everyone is going to have access to a 100 Mb/s internet connection there should absolutely be a minimum required for everyone. Make it 5 Mb/s for a land line connection and price it accordingly.

So many companies expect people to have access to the internet that not having it greatly cripples ability to work. Having an overpriced underperforming and unreliable internet connection is just as bad as having no internet connection. It really should be a utility.

I would love to have a 5 mb/s guaranteed connection that doesn't have lag spikes every 5 minutes.

ATT... why do you set the standards so low.
Edited by Tsumi - 5/15/14 at 11:44am
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post #85 of 101
They are not innovating now, so just regulate them.
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post #86 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

You can't guarantee a maximum speed but you can set a minimum. What we need are minimum standards. It is horrendous that a company is allowed to charge $45 for a speed that may not even meet the minimum advertised rating for an "up to 3 mbp/s" connection.

While not everyone is going to have access to a 100 Mb/s internet connection there should absolutely be a minimum required for everyone. Make it 5 Mb/s for a land line connection and price it accordingly.

So many companies expect people to have access to the internet that not having it greatly cripples ability to work. Having an overpriced underperforming and unreliable internet connection is just as bad as having no internet connection. It really should be a utility.

The same reasons you can't guarantee a maximum speed are the same reasons you can't guarantee a minimum speed.

It is the nature of the technology, you can build it (with enough money and technology put into it) to do certain things, but that doesn't mean it is going to behave that way. The problem is that once you guarantee a speed the moment that fails the provider is now liable to that customer.

Sorry, I am a very open minded person when it comes to running an ISP, and am very generous to my customers given the technology limits I fight. That being said, I would never be OK with guaranteeing any level of service, minimum or maximum. I deliver based on a best effort situation and do everything possible to provide the best service, but I am not going to guarantee speeds.

Hell, even Tier 1 connections with SLAs backing them don't even have absolute guarantees behind them, and these connections cost thousands and thousands of dollars per month!
    
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post #87 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

The same reasons you can't guarantee a maximum speed are the same reasons you can't guarantee a minimum speed.

It is the nature of the technology, you can build it (with enough money and technology put into it) to do certain things, but that doesn't mean it is going to behave that way. The problem is that once you guarantee a speed the moment that fails the provider is now liable to that customer.

Sorry, I am a very open minded person when it comes to running an ISP, and am very generous to my customers given the technology limits I fight. That being said, I would never be OK with guaranteeing any level of service, minimum or maximum. I deliver based on a best effort situation and do everything possible to provide the best service, but I am not going to guarantee speeds.

Hell, even Tier 1 connections with SLAs backing them don't even have absolute guarantees behind them, and these connections cost thousands and thousands of dollars per month!

Is it not possible to set a min speed though? I'd think by now if you can service an area with plans that can hit 100 Mb/s you'd be able to maintain a min of say 5. In the language I can understand why you would not 'guarantee' a speed but by now I'd think when planning a service area you could plan so that the network would provide a consistent min bandwidth, not accounting hiccups.
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post #88 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

Is it not possible to set a min speed though? I'd think by now if you can service an area with plans that can hit 100 Mb/s you'd be able to maintain a min of say 5. In the language I can understand why you would not 'guarantee' a speed but by now I'd think when planning a service area you could plan so that the network would provide a consistent min bandwidth, not accounting hiccups.

No, because the speeds are dependent on loads, and they can't guarantee that loads won't spike. It's those hiccups that make it impossible, and they do happen.
post #89 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

Is it not possible to set a min speed though? I'd think by now if you can service an area with plans that can hit 100 Mb/s you'd be able to maintain a min of say 5. In the language I can understand why you would not 'guarantee' a speed but by now I'd think when planning a service area you could plan so that the network would provide a consistent min bandwidth, not accounting hiccups.

No, because the speeds are dependent on loads, and they can't guarantee that loads won't spike. It's those hiccups that make it impossible, and they do happen.


The problem is they advertised based on "up to" speeds. A number they can pull out of their bum but never have to actually reach. and charge more for larger random numbers pulled out of their bum but again with no requirement to actually meet those speeds.

This is pie in the sky dreaming but if they were required to meet "average speeds" over a given period of time, like a month. This would give wiggle room for dips and outages but still require a certain level of service. The obvious issues with my idea is that it would require some form of data logging which many here would not like, and they would probably start charging more if their average speed were higher then the requirement....well it was a good idea in my head. tongue.gif
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post #90 of 101
So they are threatening to do, nothing different. Thats funny.
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