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A Different Take on Pull?

post #1 of 6
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So I am a little confused by all of this water cooling shenanigans, and am in need of some clarification. I am planning to cool my 4670k with a Corsair H100i. Would it be ok to have the rad in the following configuration: (From the bottom of the case to to the top)

First, the radiator

Then, the actual top of the case

Lastly, the fans pulling air out of the case and through the radiator.

Sorry if that wasn't very clear.

[fan ][fan ]
--top of case---
[radiator ]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^
| | | | |

air

The reason i am putting fans on top of the case is because there is a plastic cover for them on my phantom 410.

Thanks
post #2 of 6
Yeah, that configuration will be fine. There would only be a few degrees' difference between push and pull.
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post #3 of 6
Putting the rads inside of the case and the fans outside is fine, just be sure to use some neoprene or rubberized silicon gaskets to make an airtight seal between the rad/fans. I'd also highly recommend using your fans as intake pushing air through the rad rather than outtaking pulling air through the rad.

Atmospheric air has about half the heat capacity of water. Basically air will heat up about twice as fast as water. Your radiators cooling capabilities are directly reliant on your delta temperatures, which is the temp difference between ambient air and your coolant.

By using your rad as exhaust you are heating up the air inside the chassis with all the components NOT under a waterblock. For every 2 degrees your air heats up going through your rad your coolant only drops 1 degree. The cooler the air going into the rad the better, so you're only losing performance by using it as outtake.

If you're worried about the components NOT under waterblocks not getting cool enough air just remember that the air coming out of the rad will never be hotter than the coolant inside your loop. There is no reason to favor rads as exhaust over rads as intake.
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post #4 of 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

Putting the rads inside of the case and the fans outside is fine, just be sure to use some neoprene or rubberized silicon gaskets to make an airtight seal between the rad/fans. I'd also highly recommend using your fans as intake pushing air through the rad rather than outtaking pulling air through the rad.

Atmospheric air has about half the heat capacity of water. Basically air will heat up about twice as fast as water. Your radiators cooling capabilities are directly reliant on your delta temperatures, which is the temp difference between ambient air and your coolant.

By using your rad as exhaust you are heating up the air inside the chassis with all the components NOT under a waterblock. For every 2 degrees your air heats up going through your rad your coolant only drops 1 degree. The cooler the air going into the rad the better, so you're only losing performance by using it as outtake.

If you're worried about the components NOT under waterblocks not getting cool enough air just remember that the air coming out of the rad will never be hotter than the coolant inside your loop. There is no reason to favor rads as exhaust over rads as intake.

This is on the right track but a bit confused, and / or confusing. At room temp water has about four times the specific heat capacity of air.

"For every 2 degrees the air heats going through a rad the coolant only drops one degree"? That doesn't seem to make sense. If ambient is 20C and it is warmed to 30 by the rad then water would be 25C making the air hotter than the water. This sort of fixed ratio doesn't really exist. Air coming out of a rad will be quite close to water temp depending on speed of air flow and efficiency.
The air will be raised in temp by a certain number of degrees based on water temp but what temp is the water being cooled from? its not really, its just being heated til it expels as much heat as is being put in.

The point remains valid though.
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post #5 of 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

This is on the right track but a bit confused, and / or confusing. At room temp water has about four times the specific heat capacity of air.

"For every 2 degrees the air heats going through a rad the coolant only drops one degree"? That doesn't seem to make sense. If ambient is 20C and it is warmed to 30 by the rad then water would be 25C making the air hotter than the water. This sort of fixed ratio doesn't really exist. Air coming out of a rad will be quite close to water temp depending on speed of air flow and efficiency.
The air will be raised in temp by a certain number of degrees based on water temp but what temp is the water being cooled from? its not really, its just being heated til it expels as much heat as is being put in.

The point remains valid though.

LOL, sloppy choice of phrasing on my behalf I guess. Really, it's 4x less? Dang, guess I should get my facts straight. XD
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post #6 of 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

This is on the right track but a bit confused, and / or confusing. At room temp water has about four times the specific heat capacity of air.

Keep in mind also that specific heat capacity means it's 4x when comparing equal mass. Since air is a lot less dense than water, when you compare by volume, the ratio is much, much higher, approximately 3400:1 (see note * below). I think that's more significant for PC watercooling purposes since air and liquid flow rates are a big part of things, and in a typical home environment, when we talk about ambient and coolant temps it's a lot easier to measure the quantities of air and water involved by volume than by mass.
Quote:
"For every 2 degrees the air heats going through a rad the coolant only drops one degree"? That doesn't seem to make sense. If ambient is 20C and it is warmed to 30 by the rad then water would be 25C making the air hotter than the water. This sort of fixed ratio doesn't really exist. Air coming out of a rad will be quite close to water temp depending on speed of air flow and efficiency.
The air will be raised in temp by a certain number of degrees based on water temp but what temp is the water being cooled from? its not really, its just being heated til it expels as much heat as is being put in.

I think I know what you're saying but I can't quite follow this either to be honest. Thermal capacity expresses the amount of energy (heat) needed to raise a given quantity of a substance by a given temperature. So it's important to keep straight the difference between heat and temperature, and you also can't leave out the masses or volumes when talking about it. So the right way to phrase it is:

It takes the same amount of energy to raise the temperature of 1g of water by 1 degree as it takes to raise approx. 4g of air by 1 degree (or 1g of air by 4 degrees)
Cooling 1g of water by 1 degree will raise around 3400ml of air by 1 degree

If you consider that a typical loop might contain around 1 quart of water, by my calculations that means cooling the entire loop by one degree will raise the temperature of about 120 cubic feet of air by one degree.

Of course, since your chips are constantly introducing heat when the system is running, there's a continuous flow of energy without the coolant temp necessarily dropping. But if your coolant is 10 above ambient when you turn the system off, assuming a typical room size around 1000 total cubic feet, cooling the loop back to ambient will raise the entire room temp by around 1.2 degrees.

But since the ambient has gone up, the amount it can cool is a bit less. Heat capacity values also fluctuate with temperature, atmospheric pressure, relative humidity, etc. etc... physics is hard, which is why I'm not a physicist biggrin.gif

* Nerd note: I'm taking values from the table here, comparing water at 25C with air at "typical room conditions").
Edited by threephi - 5/14/14 at 6:45pm
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