Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › Help! 23 C temp rise after 1.5 years (full nickel CPU block, EK Supreme)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Help! 23 C temp rise after 1.5 years (full nickel CPU block, EK Supreme) - Page 3

post #21 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastabog View Post

Re: tubing, I just ordered the Tygon R6012 (norprene, supposed not to leach plasticizer). I read good things about both this Tygon and the Advanced LRT.

By "rinse with boiling water a few times", I assume the pump and reservoir should be part of the process, correct? Can the pump and reservoir withstand boiling temps?

Also, do I need to clean the pump separately? Any advice regarding that?

Many thanks for all the info so far.

Not too sure about the reservoir and pump, all I know is you should NEVER use alcohol to clean your reservoir if it's made of acrylic as it will crack it.

I think a decently hot water should not harm the reservoir or pump. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by SigTauMatt View Post

OP, please note Primoflex Advanced LRT here (don't get the Advanced PRO). I've seen in *many* forums that this stuff is the way to go. It's the path i'll be taking myself in about a year in my own build.

kcuestag, good looking out!

tongue.gif
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 7700k ASUS Maximus IX Formula EVGA GTX1080 Ti *soon* EVGA GTX1080 Ti *soon* 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 2666MHz CL16 Samsung 950 PRO M.2 512GB WD Red 4TB WD Green 1TB 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H110i GT Windows 10 PRO ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q Corsair K70 RGB MX Brown 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
EVGA Supernova T2 850W Phanteks Enthoo Luxe Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum Razer Destructor 2 
AudioAudioAudio
Beyerdynamic DT-770 PRO 80ohm JDS O2+ODAC Zalman MIC-M1 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 7700k ASUS Maximus IX Formula EVGA GTX1080 Ti *soon* EVGA GTX1080 Ti *soon* 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 2666MHz CL16 Samsung 950 PRO M.2 512GB WD Red 4TB WD Green 1TB 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H110i GT Windows 10 PRO ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q Corsair K70 RGB MX Brown 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
EVGA Supernova T2 850W Phanteks Enthoo Luxe Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum Razer Destructor 2 
AudioAudioAudio
Beyerdynamic DT-770 PRO 80ohm JDS O2+ODAC Zalman MIC-M1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #22 of 42
The reservoir has some cracks already, don't you think?
Old rig
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570K Asus Maximus V Gene MSI Radeon R9 280X Gaming G.Skill Trident 2400 C10 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Crucial M500 240 Hitach HDT721010 EK Supremacy Clear CSQ Alphacool XT45 360+240 
CoolingCoolingMonitorPower
EK-VGA Supreme HF Swiftech MCP655 Asus MX239H Antec TP 550 New 
CaseAudio
NZXT Switch 810 Black M Creative X-Fi Extreme 
  hide details  
Reply
Old rig
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570K Asus Maximus V Gene MSI Radeon R9 280X Gaming G.Skill Trident 2400 C10 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Crucial M500 240 Hitach HDT721010 EK Supremacy Clear CSQ Alphacool XT45 360+240 
CoolingCoolingMonitorPower
EK-VGA Supreme HF Swiftech MCP655 Asus MX239H Antec TP 550 New 
CaseAudio
NZXT Switch 810 Black M Creative X-Fi Extreme 
  hide details  
Reply
post #23 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloppy007 View Post

The reservoir has some cracks already, don't you think?

If you mean the top part, I believe that's just a scratch, not a crack.

But yes, make sure you inspect the reservoir to make sure there's no signs of the acrylic cracking down, just to be safe. tongue.gif

No need to run boiling water on the pump or the reservoir, normal water should be fine, I'd do boiling on the radiators mainly, just make sure to rinse it well with distilled/deionized water at the end. thumb.gif
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 7700k ASUS Maximus IX Formula EVGA GTX1080 Ti *soon* EVGA GTX1080 Ti *soon* 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 2666MHz CL16 Samsung 950 PRO M.2 512GB WD Red 4TB WD Green 1TB 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H110i GT Windows 10 PRO ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q Corsair K70 RGB MX Brown 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
EVGA Supernova T2 850W Phanteks Enthoo Luxe Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum Razer Destructor 2 
AudioAudioAudio
Beyerdynamic DT-770 PRO 80ohm JDS O2+ODAC Zalman MIC-M1 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 7700k ASUS Maximus IX Formula EVGA GTX1080 Ti *soon* EVGA GTX1080 Ti *soon* 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 2666MHz CL16 Samsung 950 PRO M.2 512GB WD Red 4TB WD Green 1TB 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair H110i GT Windows 10 PRO ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q Corsair K70 RGB MX Brown 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
EVGA Supernova T2 850W Phanteks Enthoo Luxe Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum Razer Destructor 2 
AudioAudioAudio
Beyerdynamic DT-770 PRO 80ohm JDS O2+ODAC Zalman MIC-M1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastabog View Post

To my shame, this is most probably part of the problem:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)





Adding to my shame, I admit that I did not clean the radiator before installing it. I partly blame the shop who told me back then that it's safe to use without prior cleaning. Is that friendly looking green stuff from the tube or radiator in your opinion?

Should I clean the pump too? Any advice in that regard?

Much to learn here for me frown.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastabog View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcuestag View Post

Definitely looks like plasticizer leeching from the tubing. You'd want to dissamble everything and give it a good rinse with hot/boiling water (No vinegar or other acids please! biggrin.gif ) a few times then last few rinses with distilled/deionized water.


Your temperature increase is probably because your CPU block is clogged with that crap that has leeched from the tubing. After everything is cleaned, I highly suggest you to change the tubing for some Primochill Primoflex Advanced LRT to prevent that, most other tubings will end up leeching plasticizer again!
Re: tubing, I just ordered the Tygon R6012 (norprene, supposed not to leach plasticizer). I read good things about both this Tygon and the Advanced LRT.

By "rinse with boiling water a few times", I assume the pump and reservoir should be part of the process, correct? Can the pump and reservoir withstand boiling temps?

Also, do I need to clean the pump separately? Any advice regarding that?

Many thanks for all the info so far.

Plasticizer is a likely explanation for the stuff in your res, although it's hard to tell exactly what it is. It could also possibly be flaked-off plating from your blocks or fittings ... I hope it's not, but you'll know pretty quickly when you open everything up worriedsmiley.gif

Similarly, you'll know when you look inside your pump if it needs any attention. I wouldn't use water straight from the kettle; I'd start with hot soapy water the same as you would use to wash dishes and take it from there. Pipe cleaners will come in handy if you need to dislodge any gunk from within the impeller blades. The one part of your pump you want to be especially careful and gentle with is the little teflon ball at the top of the stalk on the main body, as that's what the impeller actually touches and rotates around.

Norprene looks like a bit of overkill since it's more expensive, and IMO it's rather ugly. But it looks like a very solid and resilient choice since apparently it was designed for high-temperature food and beverage applications. Hopefully that means it won't leach anything biggrin.gif
Blinky
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-950 @4.034 GHz Asus Rampage III Formula GeForce GTX 770 6GB Crucial Ballistix 1600MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro SSD EK Supreme HF (full nickel) Danger Den Monsoon Dual-Bay Reservoir/Pump Win 7 Pro 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410 Rosewill RK-9000 Seasonic X-650 Cosmos 1000 
Other
Lamptron FC5-V2 
  hide details  
Reply
Blinky
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-950 @4.034 GHz Asus Rampage III Formula GeForce GTX 770 6GB Crucial Ballistix 1600MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro SSD EK Supreme HF (full nickel) Danger Den Monsoon Dual-Bay Reservoir/Pump Win 7 Pro 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410 Rosewill RK-9000 Seasonic X-650 Cosmos 1000 
Other
Lamptron FC5-V2 
  hide details  
Reply
post #25 of 42
Thread Starter 

Ok ... so compiling all advice and reading, do the following steps sound about right? (uncertain steps in orange)

 

  1. Drain current coolant and flush reservoir and tubing with hot tap water to get the bulk of nasties out. This should be quick.
  2. Optional step. Remount loop, fill it with hot water (close to- but not boiling) and run it for a few minutes with the pump at max speed. Drain. Reverse the flow in the CPU block and radiator and repeat. Should get most nasties out.
  3. Take out radiator, fill it half way with hot dist water + dist vinegar (3:1 ratio) and shake well for a minute or so. Drain and repeat until no more nasties come out. Then fill fully with hot dist + dist vinegar (4:1) and leave for 1-2h. Drain, then rinse with distilled water 2x or 3x times until water comes out clean (use clear glass to check).
  4. Take apart the nickel CPU block and clean the inside chambers, fins and jet-plate with a metal polish like this one (as recommended by EKWB here) which cuts through corrosion and cleans, but plays nice with nickel. Use a mild toothbrush for the fins, and a cloth for the rest. Ketchup as alternative to metal polish, but I'll avoid that. Then rinse CPU block parts in warm (hot?) distilled water a few times.
  5. Reapply metal polish inside CPU block? I'd say not.
  6. Clean brass/nickel fittings as well using polish or just soapy water. Rinse with distilled.
  7. Take apart the acetal pump top and clean with warm soapy water and cloth or mild toothbrush. Rinse with distilled.
  8. Dismantle pump and clean it with warm soapy water and soft cloth/toothbrush then rinse in distilled? Any danger? (sensitive parts?) edit: @threephi replied to this above while I was typing the post. Thanks!
  9. Clean insides of reservoir with a cloth and warm soapy water. Rinse with distilled.
  10. Reassemble whole loop with new tubing (this Tygon R6012 tubing - norprene, doesn't leak plasticizer). Fill with hot distilled water and run for 30 minutes. Drain. Repeat.
  11. Fill loop with coolant (EKoolant Clear in my case, see below why not distilled + killcoil/biocide). I'm staying away from dyed coolants.
  12. Done?

 

I chose the EKoolant Clear after some reading and as per these EKWB tests which showed that distilled (+ killcoil or biocide) causes staining on nickel blocks much quicker than premixed coolants ... granted, they are not as good at cooling as distilled water, but I favour longevity over an extra 2C. I know that a lot of experts recommend just distilled water + kill coil/biocide for copper blocks, but too many recommending against that combo for nickel blocks, including EKWB.

 

How off am I in the above plan?


Edited by mastabog - 5/16/14 at 7:04pm
post #26 of 42
To be honest I think you're over thinking this considering you've already committed to pulling it apart and cleaning the blocks and replacing the tubing. Me personally, I'd do just that, drain it, pull it apart and clean each part.

Put it back together, I'd use X1 as coolant add (now that I've got it, love it), run it little while and then drain. Fill it again and enjoy my new, shiny cool system again.
Just a 'puter
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 6700K ASUS Maximus VIII Hero iGPU thanks to Nvidia 970 3.5GB Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK8GX4M2B3200C16 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 950 PRO 512GB Crucial M4 256GB RX360 V3 Koolance CPU-380I 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Koolance RP-452X2 Reservoir Koolance PMP-450 12V Variable Speed Pump Windows 10 Pro x64 benq XL2411Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
logitech G510 Seasonic X-760 Corsair 800D Mionix Castor 
AudioAudio
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD DT 990 Premium 250Ohm 
  hide details  
Reply
Just a 'puter
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 6700K ASUS Maximus VIII Hero iGPU thanks to Nvidia 970 3.5GB Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK8GX4M2B3200C16 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 950 PRO 512GB Crucial M4 256GB RX360 V3 Koolance CPU-380I 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Koolance RP-452X2 Reservoir Koolance PMP-450 12V Variable Speed Pump Windows 10 Pro x64 benq XL2411Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
logitech G510 Seasonic X-760 Corsair 800D Mionix Castor 
AudioAudio
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD DT 990 Premium 250Ohm 
  hide details  
Reply
post #27 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post

To be honest I think you're over thinking this considering you've already committed to pulling it apart and cleaning the blocks and replacing the tubing. Me personally, I'd do just that, drain it, pull it apart and clean each part.

Put it back together, I'd use X1 as coolant add (now that I've got it, love it), run it little while and then drain. Fill it again and enjoy my new, shiny cool system again.
This, or +1, or whatever it is the kids say these days tongue.gif

Drain it, take it apart, open everything up, see what needs doing, then do it biggrin.gif

One additional thing to do is inspect the o-rings in the CPU block, and the channels where they sit. Just make sure they're still reasonably flexible with no nicks in them and clean them off. Don't stretch them while doing so since they're not engineered to open up like rubber bands, and doing so could deform them beyond the shape to fit back where they're supposed to. Take a peek at the o-ring channels to make sure there's no corrosion there which might undermine the integrity of the seal.

A word about ketchup... people use it because they read about it on the internet, and it's already in their fridge. It works (sort of) because it contains vinegar and sugar, but there's a lot of other stuff in it besides which IMO has no business touching your components. If you're absolutely scraping for each penny, and don't want to spend a single cent (or pence wink.gif) on anything, use it if you have to and make sure to rinse thoroughly after. Distilled white vinegar marketed for laundry use is rather cheap on this side of the pond and much preferred instead. (The kind sold for use in salads is usually 10x more expensive even though it is exactly the same thing)
Blinky
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-950 @4.034 GHz Asus Rampage III Formula GeForce GTX 770 6GB Crucial Ballistix 1600MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro SSD EK Supreme HF (full nickel) Danger Den Monsoon Dual-Bay Reservoir/Pump Win 7 Pro 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410 Rosewill RK-9000 Seasonic X-650 Cosmos 1000 
Other
Lamptron FC5-V2 
  hide details  
Reply
Blinky
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-950 @4.034 GHz Asus Rampage III Formula GeForce GTX 770 6GB Crucial Ballistix 1600MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro SSD EK Supreme HF (full nickel) Danger Den Monsoon Dual-Bay Reservoir/Pump Win 7 Pro 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410 Rosewill RK-9000 Seasonic X-650 Cosmos 1000 
Other
Lamptron FC5-V2 
  hide details  
Reply
post #28 of 42
Thread Starter 

@threephi I don't think I'm going to use any vinegar on the blocks, fittings or pump. Too many folks advise against it, including EKWB (you did too :)). I'll stick with metal polish as advised by EKWB for nickel blocks (the tube was cheap anyway, worth having). I'll use vinegar only to clean the radiator, which I haven't done when I bought it. I only found distilled malt vinegar (instead of white) which should be fine.

 

As for tubing, the Tygon R6012 Norprene was actually cheaper than the PrimoChill Advanced LRT ... affordable too.

 

I am probably overthinking this, but it's the first time I do something like this (you all appear more experienced), so a step-by-step plan seems good to have. I also run critical stuff on this machine so I'd like to avoid messing something up, and keeping it offline for too long.

 

I'll have all parts+liquids on Monday and will report back with pics.

 

Thanks everyone for all the advice! It's a great community here.


Edited by mastabog - 5/16/14 at 8:28pm
post #29 of 42
Thread Starter 

Ok, Part I. I went through the first steps:

 

  • drained old coolant and washed away the plasticizer pieces from reservoir and radiator. They were so many and, surprize!, they stick to plastic like glue! I used a plastic container to drain the stuff, and afterwards I needed to brush the container walls vigorously to get the plasticizer pieces off. Lesson learned: use glass/ceramic containers next time.
  • washed radiator. 3+1 distilled+vinegar shaken, drained (came out blue, but very little gunk), then soaked for 2h filled with hot 3+1 distilled+vinegar, then rinsed with distilled 3 times.
  • remounted loop and ran hot distilled until cooled by itself (fans not running)
  • did not yet take CPU block or pump apart to clean

 

However, before remounting the loop, I unscrewed the CPU block fittings and look what I found:

 

 

 

Plasticizer bonanza! That stuff you see on the fins has hardened and is now almost hard plastic ... using a cotton q-tip through the hole to brush it off was very difficult. Of course, there is still a lot of it inside, and in between the fins, but I'm waiting for the new tubing, polish and coolant to arrive in 1-2 days and I'll take it apart then.

 

It's now running just distilled until then and with the CPU block still clogged with plasticizer (a little less than before owing to the q-tip operation), temperatures already dropped 13-15 C.

 

Heads-up for others: The tubing I used until now was this one, except mine was UV Black/Blue. I'm staying well away from PVC tubing from now on. I purchased the Tygon R6012 (norprene). The only other tubing I'm aware of which is supposed not to leak plasticizer is Primochill Primoflex Advanced LRT.

 

I'll post more pictures after I take apart the CPU block and pump.

 

Cheers.

 

p.s. I also inspected the Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra paste between the block and CPU IHS and it has not dried at all, and looks very healthy.


Edited by mastabog - 5/20/14 at 2:05am
post #30 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastabog View Post

temperatures already dropped 13-15 C.
thumb.gifthumb.gifthumb.gifcheers.gif

Well done! Once you get that goop out of the CPU block I'm sure it will improve even further. I'd probably start with boiling water and a toothbrush.

It's hard to tell from your photos, but the plating looks ok from what is visible. I'm quite curious to see what condition it's in.
Blinky
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-950 @4.034 GHz Asus Rampage III Formula GeForce GTX 770 6GB Crucial Ballistix 1600MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro SSD EK Supreme HF (full nickel) Danger Den Monsoon Dual-Bay Reservoir/Pump Win 7 Pro 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410 Rosewill RK-9000 Seasonic X-650 Cosmos 1000 
Other
Lamptron FC5-V2 
  hide details  
Reply
Blinky
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-950 @4.034 GHz Asus Rampage III Formula GeForce GTX 770 6GB Crucial Ballistix 1600MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro SSD EK Supreme HF (full nickel) Danger Den Monsoon Dual-Bay Reservoir/Pump Win 7 Pro 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410 Rosewill RK-9000 Seasonic X-650 Cosmos 1000 
Other
Lamptron FC5-V2 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Water Cooling
Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › Help! 23 C temp rise after 1.5 years (full nickel CPU block, EK Supreme)