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[MB] Japan Plans to Have a Power Plant in Space in a Decade - Page 8

post #71 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

The thing here is that we are also extremely oftopic since this is about a power satellite which has the advantage to get the full 1kJ/s rather than the 500J/s you'd get on the equator at best.

Yes, however I wonder how much of that you lose when firing it through the atmosphere anyway. I suppose that is the reason to look at microwave - find a frequency that is not attenuated by the atmosphere.

It also has the advantage that it would have a much longer 'day' than the surface as it would only be in the shade for a fairly small portion of its orbit.
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post #72 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmark2 View Post


Slightly off topic: Does anyone know why Thorium reactors haven't taken off?

I think it has to do with price, infrastructure, and logistics. A long time ago we needed Uranium and Plutonium to make bombs, so a ton of money was poured into the infrastructure, mining, purification, legal aspects, design, etc of getting these reactors working. Throw some government subsidies on top of that, and Uranium is pretty entrenched. It would take decades to get a thorium plant designed, built, approved, given congresses blessing, and operating. All that start up cost pushes people away.

At least that is my take on it. Not sure if there is more to it.
    
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post #73 of 107
After I read maarten12100's post can only say; Give that man a cookie! He well deserves it!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Clean burning coal plants just use an afterburner meaning that while they only exhaust CO_2 they are still putting something in the atmosphere that has been stored and contained underground for many years. Still very very bad.

You are blinded by your lack of knowledge on the subject fast reactors and fusion reactors are the answer along with hydro electric where possible.

Fukushima is a prime example of an old reactor nothing like a fast reactor actually it should've been closed decades ago but there was nothing to plaque the gap. A old poor design hit by 2 major natural disasters. Still we have to clean it up and that is where the fast reactor comes into play again.
There are also positive things about the meltdown though and that is the gigantic amount of tritium(a hydrogen isotope needed for fusion) if a invention can extract this from the ruins if we can not extract this however the Tritium is bad news because it decays over time.

If everyone in a nuclear reactor were to drop dead really nothing would happen unless the situation was already crtical new reactors have rods that can't melt at the temperatures and the plant can contain a 1.0 ratio on itself just fine. Nothing would happen actually the reactor would die out if the rods aren't lifted further to keep the ratio 1.0 since on average not enough new splits would be triggered.

Again your lack of knowledge on the subject is clouding your judgement. Old reactors should be decommissioned but fusion and fission have good safe uses(well everything is relative a fast reactor can meltdown but with the advanced filtering of substances this can be cleaned up by another fast reactor).

Some people are so scared of ionized radiation for whatever reason that is. I blame the media which is run by people thinking they can take a article written by a physicist sensationalize add some of the jargon to the story and plunge it onto the screens of the masses. Really the claims I sometimes hear make me cry and wish I could just rid myself of the 80% in this country alone.

Global warming has been debunked?! Well maybe in America because a gigantic part of the population is ignorant and frail of mind.



The thing here is that we are also extremely oftopic since this is about a power satellite which has the advantage to get the full 1kJ/s rather than the 500J/s you'd get on the equator at best.
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post #74 of 107
This is awesome in my opinion.

As for the issue with Fukushima, the actual power plant was fine, it was the most perfect combo possible from mother nature for it to have happened the way it did. Them covering it up? well that's a whole other story.
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post #75 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by age_ruler1 View Post

After I read maarten12100's post can only say; Give that man a cookie! He well deserves it!
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Although I agree with him, he should learn "a -word that starts with a vowel-" becomes an. redface.gif
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post #76 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomagenesis View Post

There are clean burning coal plants, look it up. Great strides have been made in the coal industry.

Nuclear is not a safe form of energy no matter how you look at it. Another poster here mentioned spent fuel rods. Yes, that's one. The man-power that is needed to maintain a nuke plant is very substantial. If we were to have an economic collapse, WWIII, a lot of natural disasters back to back, the radiation from a thermal meltdown of multiple plants would wipe out an ASS TON of people, way more than a coal or some other plant would.

Fukushima is a complete disaster, to say people can live nearby is total BS. You can't go within a 20 mile radius of Fukushima. It's effects are still horrible, killing incredible amounts of marine life and thousands of people have already died from it.

Imagine if 5 or 6 nuke plants in the US melted down simultaneously, we'd be totally screwed. Nuclear, by its very nature, is contingent on man-power for it's upkeep to be safe. If that man power were to cease, nuclear meltdown would ensue.

If there was some type of collapse scenario, you can bet your ass the nuke workers aren't going to work, they're going to protect their families, and that means nuclear meltdown with a far reaching effect.

I don't know why some people here think it's safe, it is not a safe form of energy, it is highly caustic and has long-lasting, devastating implications, much more so than any other form of energy.

Edit:

And one more thing, please don't bring the total crock of crap global warming is into this, it's been thoroughly debunked.

Sorry, but you are so out of touch it's not funny...Global warming is completely true, the whole debunked thing is mostly people with an interest in stopping global warming solutions (eg. Coal mine owners) trying to spend less money...I'd go more into it but in Australia it's an extremely political issue right now and we're not meant to talk politics.

And even if every coal plant was completely clean burning, that doesn't change the fact that you have to mine the coal out of the ground, causing massive amounts of environmental destruction and health issues even when the mine is operating normally..Take it from someone who lives in a country where the main industry seems to be mining: The sooner coal usage dies off, the better.

I'd also wager that the amount of land rendered unusable through coal mining and coal power generation is far higher than that wasted by nuclear power..Not to mention the deaths from coal, I suggest you actually read up before you comment because so far you're just proving to be hopelessly ignorant of the true nature of coal power. Another source, if you want
    
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post #77 of 107
Global warming is propaganda to push an agenda, I'm not going to debate with you though, I don't really have the time. It's been debunked.

I guess it all comes down to statistics, and what hypothesis someone is wishing to promote. Generally someone can provide data to back up any hypothesis by being selective in the fields and criteria for how it is gathered . My feelings on nuclear are based on how volatile radio active isotopes are when an accident occurs, and how long the duration of the damage is.

Coal miners have the choice to enter coal mines ( albeit sometimes not much of one ) but when there is a nuclear disaster it effects everyone and everything surrounding it. I don't propose to be overly informed on nuclear, but I've definitely yet to be convinced that it's benefit is anywhere near equal to its risk, especially when there are alternatives.

The future still may show that nuclear power is more dangerous than revealed to date. The FUTURE is what concerns me and the fact that nuclear power must be subsidized in order to APPEAR cheap. The cost of decommissioning the plants and storing the fuel for x thousands of years is not factored into the cost of power generation. Sure, maybe someday someone will come up with a solution to this problem but the fact is we don't have any solution to this problem and we keep making more and more waste that we store on site. Not very wise.
post #78 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomagenesis View Post

Global warming is propaganda to push an agenda, I'm not going to debate with you though, I don't really have the time. It's been debunked.

Coal miners have the choice to enter coal mines ( albeit sometimes not much of one ) but when there is a nuclear disaster it effects everyone and everything surrounding it. I don't propose to be overly informed on nuclear, but I've definitely yet to be convinced that it's benefit is anywhere near equal to its risk, especially when there are alternatives.

The future still may show that nuclear power is more dangerous than revealed to date. The FUTURE is what concerns me and the fact that nuclear power must be subsidized in order to APPEAR cheap. The cost of decommissioning the plants and storing the fuel for x thousands of years is not factored into the cost of power generation. Sure, maybe someday someone will come up with a solution to this problem but the fact is we don't have any solution to this problem and we keep making more and more waste that we store on site. Not very wise.

And when a coal burning power plant is running, even without any disasters, it spews all kinds of nasty things into the air that people have to breathe. It isn't only the miners who deal with coal.

Nuclear may be subsidized to appear cheap, but all those "alternatives" have to be subsidized as well and they still appear extremely expensive AND come with many power generation drawbacks.

A lot of technology is being researched to reduce the amount of time nuclear fuel rods are dangerous. A quick google turned this up: http://rt.com/news/laser-nuclear-waste-cancer-343/ and I've seen a dozen or so articles pop up about similar technologies over the past few years.

And what makes you think fuel storage and decommissioning plants aren't factored into power costs? Do you have a link? Those are pretty obvious costs and aren't a secret to anybody.
    
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post #79 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomagenesis View Post

Global warming is propaganda to push an agenda, I'm not going to debate with you though, I don't really have the time. It's been debunked.
Then why the push for greener cars and eventually hydrogen fuel cells. The answer is simple coal supplies will last for a very long time that is certain and making gasoline out of coal is entirely possible. The reason we don't want to is because we would have little limit to how much we can produce and thus burn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomagenesis View Post

I guess it all comes down to statistics, and what hypothesis someone is wishing to promote. Generally someone can provide data to back up any hypothesis by being selective in the fields and criteria for how it is gathered . My feelings on nuclear are based on how volatile radio active isotopes are when an accident occurs, and how long the duration of the damage is.
Well you're free to believe what you want to believe I certainly have no say in that I can only try to make you change your mind by giving facts(or if you don't believe them arguments)

There is no such things as volatile an isotope a radioactive one has a certain time in which half the cores decay. All these decays on an isotope will give a certian activity which just means so many decays each second. The sort of decay is also of importance and the medium it will be shot into Alpha Beta(- and +) and Gamma are the forms you can encounter with Alpha being the most dangerous if we get it into our bodies but fairly harmless when outside. Beta can bombard your body if you get close enough since it reaches pretty far in air. Gamma is just energy reaches very far and has no difficulties with even dense heavy core mediums.(which is the reason why castor barrels have extremely thick walls)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomagenesis View Post

Coal miners have the choice to enter coal mines ( albeit sometimes not much of one ) but when there is a nuclear disaster it effects everyone and everything surrounding it. I don't propose to be overly informed on nuclear, but I've definitely yet to be convinced that it's benefit is anywhere near equal to its risk, especially when there are alternatives.
As I said before the carry distance is rather small for when a isotope decays. I concur hydro electric is a very good source of power and easy and cheap to produce. The best way to do it for us in NL would be to make extremely thick high voltage lines the higher the voltage the better there would still be pretty significant losses and nobody could live next to the power lines but you could get it from Denmark and western germany into NL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomagenesis View Post

The future still may show that nuclear power is more dangerous than revealed to date. The FUTURE is what concerns me and the fact that nuclear power must be subsidized in order to APPEAR cheap. The cost of decommissioning the plants and storing the fuel for x thousands of years is not factored into the cost of power generation. Sure, maybe someday someone will come up with a solution to this problem but the fact is we don't have any solution to this problem and we keep making more and more waste that we store on site. Not very wise.
Certainly especially if politicians campaign for the lowest common denominator like yourself. The party I'm voting for(EU elections) stated they are against nuclear energy while clearly what they mean is that they are against nuclear fission but for fusion and fast fission. However they won't list it because only a small part of the population understands what it all means. Yet their moto is that we should move forward.

The solution is there all that is needed is more funding and more research agreements. ITER is being build however at a slow pace way too slow Russia has working fast reactors and is building more China actually bought the design plans for a billion USD. It does hurt my feelings that we built coal burning stations here in NL which are not in use because we don't need the power at all wasting billions to date yet ITER is only a 12 billion project and it is funded by all major nations.
Edited by maarten12100 - 5/16/14 at 7:02am
post #80 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Then why the push for greener cars and eventually hydrogen fuel cells. The answer is simple coal supplies will last for a very long time that is certain and making gasoline out of coal is entirely possible. The reason we don't want to is because we would have little limit to how much we can produce and thus burn.
Well you're free to believe what you want to believe I certainly have no say in that I can only try to make you change your mind by giving facts(or if you don't believe them arguments)

I don't understand what this has to do with global warming? The push for greener cars is not necessarily linked to global warming. The bigger picture is to have cars that run on a sustainable energy source that is renewable and doesn't pollute. Greener cars are however meaningless if the electricity they use is produced by coal power plants or other highly polluting sources.

I agree that Nuclear and Hyrdo are currently our best bets currently and provide the cleanest energy. However Thorium seems to be much more interesting than Nuclear for various reasons. I invite you to google Thorium Ted Talk and watch the presentation by a scientist who works / worked for Nasa.
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