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SSD Interface Comparison: PCI Express vs SATA - Page 13

post #121 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by }SkOrPn--' View Post

Hey Dave, hows it going man?

I am wondering, since you have x58 can you comment on what you believe to be the absolute fastest possible OS drive, or adapter please for our aging x58 platform? I want to either get two more 840 Pro's and do a 4 SSD raid 0 on ICH10R, or invest into a PCIe card of some type. Plextor M6e 256GB is only $300 now, but not sure how well it will work on my Rampage III. I'm not too concerned with boot up times really as my computer stays on most of the time. What I want is the fastest possible Windows 8.1/10 performance/snappiness, and this usually means looking specifically for 4K random write performance.

If I go the M.2 x2 route now, using a PCIe adapter card, will it let me boot to it when I have my SATA ports filled? And if so, will these x4 PCIe adapter cards eventually accept an x4 M.2 SSD at full x4 speed? Samsung has a x4 M.2 SSD out now and I expect many more by mid 2015.

Is there anything else worthy of a dedicated OS setup that takes advantage of PCIe 4K write speeds, not counting a expensive LSI RAID controller card which is clearly not designed specifically for RAID0 OS use? Something like a PCIe x4 adapter that accepts up to 4 SSD's you may already have, but is RAID0 dedicated? Something like the Velocity Duo x2, but in a x4 variant. I wish they would have thought of releasing a Velocity Quad x4, LOL. Not sure I trust the RevoDrive 350 in actual operation, but on paper it has all the specs I want including great write speeds.
M.2 on a PCIe x4 to M.2 converter card biggrin.gif
That said 4 drives in a RAID array give you more space but not moar 4K performance obviously but in fact it may hurt performance and after testing several SSDs (512GB bla bla bla) I've come to a startling conclusion that if you aren't doing necessarily intensive stuff most SSDs feel the same. That leaves out TLC NAND SSDs obviously because over time the LEAST accessed files become very slow to load. Because ICH10R. But i did test a few on LSI cards and ... they're not really worth it on an aging system ._.
But, I just wish I had money for a 512GB M.2 SSD and the PCIe x4 to M.2 converter card
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post #122 of 182
Yeah 512gb would be nice and I think that is what I will settle on next year when there is more choices to choose from. What I want to do now is try a 240gb M.2 PCIe for experiment and see if it somehow satisfies my needs.

Thanks Dave
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post #123 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by }SkOrPn--' View Post

Yes I know, and yes I understand this perfectly and always have. However, on my system it continually proves this notion incorrect over and over again.

If I install Windows on any of my 840 Pros, and optimize it and then use it for a while. Then I go back to RAID0, using 4 of my very old Vertex drives, the OS is a HELL OF A LOT snappier. If I install RAID0 and optimize it on my 2x 840 Pros, the OS on my 4 Vertex RAID0 array still blows it away in snappiness. When I install Windows on my 4 C300's, in raid0 the OS is much snappier and faster than when I am using a single SSD. This has always been true on my motherboard. I know and understand that it does not supposed to work that way, but it does on this machine I have.

NOTHING has come close to the OS snappiness I get when I have 4-5 drives in RAID0 on my mobo. I have tried Intels best SSD's, not even close, I've tried Several Vertex's, Vertex 2, Vertex 3's, and I've used a C300 and a M4. NOTHING touches my RAID0 array in OS snappiness when I raid them, nothing. It is a crystal clear day and night difference. Even when I used the Samsung 840 Pro's fancy caching mechanism, it didn't touch how fast the OS is when I simply RAID0 them. There must be an explanation for that.

So, either my chipset has a single drive AHCI defect, and it came that way from Asus (which I doubt) or everyone, including myself is wrong about RAID0 not being good for an OS setup. Because RAID0 on my motherboard is much better than every SSD I have ever tried in AHCI mode. I'm sick and tired of my motherboard contradicting the storage industry.

That is why I want to try PCIe, to see if it beats my machines amazing SATA RAID0 OS snappiness. Or should I just accept my motherboards strange uniqueness and go back to a 4 drive RAID0 array and enjoy how fast it feels like that? Again, I DO NOT NEED high sequential, just OS apps instant snappiness and single SSD's even super expensive enthusiast class ones DO NOT provide that on my machine, and never have.

I almost either want to say placebo effect, or you have some very non-typical OS usage patterns.
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post #124 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsec View Post

Sorry, I forgot you tested that yourself doh.gif during the frenzy of getting this all done. I should have questioned the Anandtech result, since they did not test an M6e yet.

I fell into the same trap that they did, reaching a general conclusion based on one product (XP941) without other data points (from an M6e and Win 7).

OTOH, their method for testing TRIM is not at all identical to trimcheck, and is much harder on a SSD and not a practical method of testing TRIM for the average owner of a SSD.

That is, the Anandtech method requires a SSD without any data the user values on it, since they benchmark the SSD when empty, then writes data to every LBA on the SSD multiple times, deletes it to cause TRIM instructions to be sent to the SSD, and then benchmark it again. trimcheck writes data to a small portion of the SSD and then deletes it, and in its second pass, checks the bytes it wrote to previously to see if the data it wrote is gone.

I was thinking, how could Samsung not know that: 1. Windows 7 does not support, or only partially supports TRIM with PCIe SSDs, or 2. The XP941 has an incompatibility with Windows 7 TRIM for some reason, IF that is the case.

Then I realized, given the limited availability of the XP941, sold only to OEMs, and found only on new laptop PCs sold only with Windows 8, is their a reason for that?

Note that Anandtech got the XP941 not directly from Samsung, but from an OEM retailer in Australia (RamCity).

The Plextor M6e has quite a few reviews on PC hardware review websites, and the same question about Windows 7 TRIM and PCIe SSDs could be asked about Plextor. The M6e is not marketed as a laptop only SSD, or restricted to Windows 8 usage, as the XP941 seems to be at this time.

It looks like this situation/issue has yet to be analyzed and answered completely. I should have known better... doh.gif

You (and anandtech) fell into another trap of extrapolating Z68 results to all chipsets! TRIM works fine on XP941/X99 in windows 7, verified with trimcheck 0.70 / fsutil / crystaldiskinfo. smile.gif
post #125 of 182
Hey Sean.....can you offer an opinion on the Apricorn Velocity Duo X2
It's a PCIe card that you install your own SSD's on.
It looks pretty promising to me.
Especially since I have two SSD's that I can't for the life of me get to boot in RAID 0 using the MB controller.


Thanks man, 'preciate your time.








http://www.apricorn.com/vel-duox2.html
post #126 of 182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachrex View Post

Hey Sean.....can you offer an opinion on the Apricorn Velocity Duo X2
It's a PCIe card that you install your own SSD's on.
It looks pretty promising to me.
Especially since I have two SSD's that I can't for the life of me get to boot in RAID 0 using the MB controller.


Thanks man, 'preciate your time.








http://www.apricorn.com/vel-duox2.html


Never tried one. No idea.

post #127 of 182
I am glad ive found this topic, but after reading the first post, i am a bit confused now.
If i understand it correctly, the M6e PCIE SSD, or in fact any? PCIE SSD is not recommended for my Z68 motherboard, since it would not achieve faster speeds, than a normal ssd connected to the sata 6gb/s (btw from wich i dont have anymore free) ?
My initial goal was to get an ssd as secondary ssd (so not a boot drive), since my main samsung is getting full. I wanted to get PCIE x4 one, or even M.2 on a PCIE card, to be able to use it in the future on a newer MB wich has an extra M.2 slot.
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post #128 of 182
OK... dumb question. I thought that SATA Express was supposed to be the next evolution of the HDD/SSD bus connector. Why isn't anyone talking about SATA Express these days?
post #129 of 182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LocutusH View Post

I am glad ive found this topic, but after reading the first post, i am a bit confused now.
If i understand it correctly, the M6e PCIE SSD, or in fact any? PCIE SSD is not recommended for my Z68 motherboard, since it would not achieve faster speeds, than a normal ssd connected to the sata 6gb/s (btw from wich i dont have anymore free) ?
My initial goal was to get an ssd as secondary ssd (so not a boot drive), since my main samsung is getting full. I wanted to get PCIE x4 one, or even M.2 on a PCIE card, to be able to use it in the future on a newer MB wich has an extra M.2 slot.

 

You get faster speeds than SATA 6Gb/s allows...i have no clue where you read you dont...you can see in the benches the M6e reaches sequential speeds over 700MB/s. Newer drives coming out soon will be much faster.

 

 

And soon the new SandForce drives will be out and at the end of the year OCZ's JetExpress controller will be powering SSDs to such high speeds as well.

 

I'll be reviewing the Kingston HyperX Predator soon...

Quote:
Originally Posted by trparky View Post

OK... dumb question. I thought that SATA Express was supposed to be the next evolution of the HDD/SSD bus connector. Why isn't anyone talking about SATA Express these days?


They are: http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/sata-io-readies-sata-express-prime-time-storage-visions-2015-update/

post #130 of 182
Sorry then i was misunderstandin what you wrote. It was something about Z68, and plextor sait it would be normal for the drive to default to x1 speed, since these can not assign that many pci express lanes, and so on. Therefore i assumed, that a Z68 is not a the best chipset to achive higher troughput than sata 6gb/s.

Anyways, i am considering 3 options right now:

1. Simply a Plextor M6e 256GB - about 280 EUR
2. A Samsung 941 256GB M.2, with a PCIE x4 to M.2 card ~ 310 EUR
3. wait for Samsung 951, and use that too, with a card...

Does the converter card matter? Something like this?
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