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SSD Interface Comparison: PCI Express vs SATA - Page 6

post #51 of 182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilykat View Post

So basically TL;DR if you have a few 6G ports, the cost is not worth getting PCIe version. But if you have money to burn, don't want to replace motherboard, and need every bit of bandwidth to load faster so you can frag enemies faster, go for it! biggrin.gif

In for a chance to win one, I can install it in my parent's computer. Right now it takes them about 5 minutes to boot to Windows and another 2 or 3 to start Firefox.

haah yep!

 

good luck! I'm using it as a boot drive now and it is performing great. :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

Great read sean! Shame the first few proper M.2 or SATA.E/PCIE SSDs are far from clearly succeeding SATA

 

Thanks, yea, I can't wait for a x4 version with a better controller myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r View Post

perfect reviwew man!

 

thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artistar View Post

Only open to Yanks and Canadians.......who-let-rip-smiley.png

sorry...cant change anything about that :o

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post

Unless I'm mistaken (possible!), take a look at the Z97 SOC Force. It has 2 PCIe 3 x4 slots there, the 2nd doesn't appear to share bandwidth the x16 so in theory it shouldn't drop it to x8.

Anyhow, it's great to see that 1 PCIe drive can now match (losing here, winning there) 3 year old SATA SSDs in RAID0. I guess we're moving ahead, I just don't get why this isn't a PCIe 3 already and x4, this stuff isn't new today anymore. Could you if possible also explain why we simply don't see any improvements in latency and 4K low-queue depth reads?

Nice review guys.

I said assuming that the x4 slot is a direct connection to the CPU. LGA1150 CPUs only have 16 lanes, and the switches only allow for x16/x0/x0, x8/x8/x0, x8/x4/x4, or x8/x4/x0. Now, if you connect it to the x4 slot that's connected to the PCH, it won't be taking bandwidth away from the GPU.

New controllers are needed to see improvements in latency and 4k low-queue depth reads. SF-3xxx controllers are due out later this year I believe, we'll see what the next generation controllers are capable of.

 

Yea, I can't wait to see what the new controllers do myself. I'm excited :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit Igor View Post

I also think new controllers are needed to see better 4k with lower latency.Why i think that ? I saw benchmark from Viking SSD .That is SSD that you stick in DIMM slot.Benchmark didn't impress me even the fact that SSD was connect direct to CPU.So SSD in DIMM slot is great solution but to have great result we need to see better and faster NAND and better and faster controllers.Intel X-25 had 3.500iops in 4k reads while EVO has 10000iops so we are going up .I dont know is this short or long time that we need to hit 10000 but i think we can see a lot more iops in 4k even on sata3 controller.
What you think guys ,what will happened if we put two controllers in SSD?
I would love to see even some-kind of non-volatile RAM or even what i am willing to except and pay big money for ,50gb of RAM-Disk on X79 platform that you can set up in BIOS and installing Windows on it.

The ASUS RAIDR is a dual controller SSD. The Plextor M6e basically has 2 5GB/s controllers combined into a single chip.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superplush View Post

Very nice read on this topic. I personally wasn't aware of PCIe SSD's yet.thumb.gif

Still, the one thing that does stick in my mind ATM is that the PCIe slot would be dangerously close to a GPU exhaust fan in most cases, at least, alot closer than an SATA drive usually is. Judging by the board layout cooling the PCIe SSD might become a new market if they ever implimented it 'mainstream' ?

It doesn't get too hot atm. I know the ASUS RAIDR has a heat sink on it to keep results consistent under heavy load.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stubass View Post

Another great write up Sean as well as @parsec. thumb.gif

As you know from me proof reading kinda as you progressed on the article, my only gripe is that void warrantee sticker if you remove the SSD from the adapter and perf / $ atm.

This is some benches from the 128GB M6e





Nice!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deafboy View Post

You get all the imaginary rep+

Very well done!

Thank you!

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post #52 of 182
Very nice read, you seem to be well versed. You also seem to dislike ambiguity in responses like my self, saying exactly the correct answer. My question however is this, PCIe is full duplex however DDR1-DDR4 is only half duplex (it can only read or write at any interval) If all of the data travels to the DDR3 chip how can it as a whole be full duplex? In my personal opinion this is most likely the cause of the similarity in actual preformace speeds of PCIe drives verse SATA drives. I would personally rather see DDR5 style chips that are out of phase from one another than. Out of phase meaning that if each chip took 18ns to send/recieve than the second would start when the first was at 9 ns, and so on. But regardless the drive it self is full duplex, the connection point is full duplex, but whats in the middle is not. So in actuality you might as well just put a couple of mSATA drives on that host controller in a raid 0 configuration which would still give better speeds.

In further reference to something being out of phase, this term is heavily linked with power. 110 verse 220. In actuality 220 is 110 power, it is a single phase of 110 power that looks like /\/\/\/\/\ on a graph and a second one that looks like \/\/\/\/\ they are 2 different streams of power. http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_1/2.html
For this reason and the fact we have multiple cpu cores in computers now i significantly would recomend DDR5 chips that are out of phase from each other to get unprecedented speeds. As far as computer manufactors and consumers, ddr4 although being liner to ddr3 it is not the next step. It has always been DDR5, because essentially everything becomes full duplex. The need to have buffer's inside of drives and perennials will no longer be a requirement thus making the after market products cheaper. Just imagine an upgraded USB formate using full duplex, drive conections using doing the same. And with there being phase, the second core of the cpu can work on a task while the first is just finishing, which currently i do not see an issue with sense for example AMD has made an 8 core cpu thats actually 2 modules of 4-core which implies a direct intension to put each cpu module in a separate phase. Which of course implies an always processing CPU verse a bulk of data processing. Now at any instance you probably use only 25% of the CPU at a very demanding interval of time, you could in theory double the speed in which you process the task or by at least get a much smother performance of multitasking.
post #53 of 182
Data is not electricity in the same sense.
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post #54 of 182
For instance the PS4 has 2 modules of 4 core processors making a total of 8-cores in a single chip, although i cannot garrenty that sony and AMD thought of this in there decision to use DDR5 memory or that the current operating system allows for this but if i where them


DDR5 memory actions
module1
receive data from module1
send data to module 1
recieve data from module 1
module 2
send data to module 2
recieve data from module 2
send data to module 2

This is the technology available in DDR5
for there being a second phase
it would look something like this for each instance of time.
recieve
send
recieve
send
send
recieve
send
recieve
recieve
send
recieve
send
send
recieve
send
receive
post #55 of 182
Lets try this again...

For instance the PS4 has 2 modules of 4 core processors making a total of 8-cores in a single chip, although i cannot garrenty that sony and AMD thought of this in there decision to use DDR5 memory or that the current operating system allows for this but if i where them


DDR5 memory actions
module1
receive data from module1........send data to module 1................receive data from module 1
module 2
send data to module 2..............recieve data from module 2.........send data to module 2
As you should be able to note after the cpu module receives data it begins to process it, it is unable to process data while sending or receiving


This is the technology available in DDR5
for there being a second phase
it would look something like this for each instance of time.
receive.......send.......receive.........send
..........send.......receive........send.......receive
send........receive......send.......receive
.......receive.........send......receive.......send........

and so forh. It would also most like turn the 256bit design of the DDR5 into 128bit making it more suitable for current generations of CPU. This would also cut the latency of DDR5 by about half with only a minor decrease do to power limitations. So ddr5 with 256bit and a latency of 18 will become 128bit and a latency of 9(possibly 10-11) DDR5 does have multiple channels which are in a series which gives the ram the 256bit architect, but if it was in separate phase instead you would see a smaller bit size but faster throughput of each. If you further implement this it could possibly be more narrowed down to 64bit technology. Mostlikely they will call this DDR6 but I would rather call it phased-ddr5 the number of phases would be given as 2, 4 for example. So if i where to label it would be,, P2DDR5 or P4DDR5, or in current models P1DDR5
post #56 of 182
Another great guide dude!
   
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post #57 of 182
Thanks to Sean for allowing me to join him in this, and extra thanks to those who mentioned me biggrin.gifwink.gif

To answer some questions and comments in this thread so far:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit Igor View Post

Hey Sean and parsec great and educational. I have few question
Why are result so different ,especially with COPY,ISO,GAME part of AS-SSD benchmark?
Definitely msahci always give lower 4k.What is driver that parsec use?
Good question about AS SSD. I have read elsewhere that the Copy Benchmark is very inconsistent in its results, and I can understand why. I get very different results on the same drives at different times, only a few minutes apart. Plus different mother boards give different results, even with the same chipset and driver, and the OS matters too. I used Windows 8.1 on all the benchmarks I did.

The M6e uses the standard AHCI driver that the OS has, whatever it is. In Windows 8 that is storahci. It is loaded automatically by the M6e. When I put the M6e on my Windows 7 PC, it changed to msahci. I did not try to load a driver manually, not sure if you could do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod717 View Post

Great article. I've been looking at a upgrade to a pci-e ssd and wonder what your thoughts are on Asus' Raidr Express pci-e ssd raid card?

The ASUS ROG RAIDR Express is not quite the same type of PCI Express SSD that the Plextor M6e is, or any of the new M.2 SSDs that will be available in the near future. The main difference between the two is the controller they use, although they are quite different in most other aspects.

The ROG RAIDR is basically two SandForce SSDs running in RAID 0 on a Marvell 9230 SATA chipset, the same chip that can be used as the extra SATA controller on a mother board. The 9230 supports RAID 0, 1, 5, 10, but is used in RAID 0 mode. It then uses two LSI/SandForce 2281 SSD controllers, one for each of the two individual SSDs in the ROG RAIDR.

The M6e uses a new controller from Marvell, that basically combines a SATA-like controller and a SSD controller on one chip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mothman View Post

Thanks Sean,

One question, As the M6e is an m.2 device on a pci-e bracket, why not just use it in the m.2 connector ?..........Is there an advantage to the Pci-e interface ?

It could be used in a M.2 slot, the PCIe card is just a feature to allow compatibility with more mother boards. Actually, adding the card to the package could reduce performance. The good news is the difference in performance using the card is small. This is the M6e in an M.2 slot:





Quote:
Originally Posted by stubass View Post

Another great write up Sean as well as @parsec. thumb.gif

As you know from me proof reading kinda as you progressed on the article, my only gripe is that void warrantee sticker if you remove the SSD from the adapter and perf / $ atm.

This is some benches from the 128GB M6e

Thanks! After seeing your benchmark results, I'm thinking that Windows 8 seems to slow down the sequential read speeds a bit in AS SSD for some reason.

To those that are not impressed by the M6e's performance compared to standard SATA III SSDs, this is a new SSD controller with the first version of its firmware. This controller uses a PCIe 2.0 interface. The NAND chips are current models, but not faster than any others used in SATA III SSDs. It is the first M.2 SSD of its type, as well as the M.2 interface itself being new and just recently being used on mother boards for the first time. For all the firsts and new things it has, the M6e works perfectly.

I did not have any problems with it at all, it was a pleasure to use and subjectively IMO it booted an OS at least as fast or a bit faster than my Samsung 840 Pro, EVO, and SanDisk Extreme II. Given all this, I consider it to be a success.
post #58 of 182
you did more research here than I did preparing my professor's research study for submission.
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post #59 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsec View Post

I did not have any problems with it at all, it was a pleasure to use and subjectively IMO it booted an OS at least as fast or a bit faster than my Samsung 840 Pro, EVO, and SanDisk Extreme II. Given all this, I consider it to be a success.

This is going to sound negative but.. simply using those as the guide-post, I don't really see it as a success.

It's price is well beyond the "normal" SSDs, the use of PCIe though "new" for SSDs, isn't something earth-shattering and hell they defaulted to the slowest one, lastly, nobody cares about Seq speeds. So though nice it exists, bring on version 2 that is actually worth-while.
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post #60 of 182
No man it doesn't sound negative,it sounds like your opinion and everybody should have one or we would be like N. Korea.
Everybody knows this is to expensive and nobody cares about seq. speed if I don't get a little bit better 4k in package with that ,but what we did here is ,we supported our two reviewers from our section of forum.Who will support them if we will not thumb.gif
Edited by Unit Igor - 5/24/14 at 1:58am
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