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[Anand] Xiaomi Announces the MiPad with Tegra K1 and Denver - Page 4

post #31 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

K1 also has a 7w TDP while Mullins has a 4.5w TDP. The A7 has a TDP of 2w.

So, even if we use your optimistic K1 TDP of 7w, it still ends up having a 56% higher TDP than Mullins and a TDP 2.5 times larger than the A7 TDP.

It is standard Nvidia mobile tactic. Go way above the TDP every other chip maker is willing to go past, brag about how you're faster than them, and then wonder why there's one or two devices that ever use Tegra. You'll notice that battery life slides are clearly missing from any slides related to K1, and there's good reason for that.

iPad Mini gets about 12 hours 30 minutes in engadget review. Meaning with K1 TDP you're looking at somewhere between 3 and 5 hours of battery life with the same quality of battery you will find in iPad. And that's implying Xiaomi will strive to use the same quality battery that Apple would.

I really don't understand how some of you make such a fuss over AMD CPU TDP being 125w while Intel is at 74w while Nvidia comes along and releases something with double the TDP and no one cares about TDP all of a sudden?

The difference between Ivy Bridge quad core TDP and FX 9590 TDP is nearly proportional to the difference between A7 TDP and K1 TDP. The odd thing is that people whine about 9590 TDP being so disproportionate in a form fact that's plugged into a wall, yet when a device that's designed to have long battery life and not burn your hands has a TDP that's way too high (at least judging by what other companies are willing to do with their chips), no one cares about TDP and power consumption!

It's not very hard to beat the competition in performance when the competition is trying to walk a fine line between power consumption, battery life, and performance and you just go "yolo performance we have 'ULP' in a marketing slide!"

Every Tegra release is the same. Some company releases a device that rocks benchmarks. Everyone goes "wow Tegra's amazing". The device is released, it gets ridiculously hot and has horrible battery life. No one cares about it anymore. No more Tegra devices are created except for Shield. Then start over again.


I wouldnt put much stock in comparing socs based on "estimated" tdps, also we havent seen mullins numbers but to be faster than a temash a6-1450 or the a4-5000 in your lenovo e145, it has to use more power even if only for a short period. while tegra has a decent track record of using lowpower, like the shield with a 28Whr battery and ~8hrs gameplay. I like [visit reddit.com/r/APUsilicon ] amd but mullins vs tegra tk1 is a non-starter
post #32 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

As well as similar battery life of course.

Proof?

OT: I wonder if nVidia will release a Shield with the K1?
    
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post #33 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Proof?

OT: I wonder if nVidia will release a Shield with the K1?

Well the mipad numbers are xiaomi's own at this point but engadget had the slides and as far as I can tell the numbers were dubbed similar as the ipad.

Also:



Would like to see shield with Denver instead of 4x A15 though.
 
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post #34 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post


Mullins performance drops by ~10% when not plugged in.

That part I didn't know. Interesting.
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post #35 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

7W is not what you get on a mobile platform. under ~6W is what you get as SOC power on a development platform.

The mobile versions (which we now have benches of) are clocked lower than the jetson tk1, don't use DDR3L, etc. use much less power.

An example comes from the whitepaper:
Same consumption as the A7 in the ipad (that's also shown in the benches in this thread) but considerably more performance.
If you get lower SoC power something is different being it more stable voltage or it having lower clocks. Of course this is with the memory included which will definitly be something but on my laptop removing a stick of ram reduces the power usage by only 300mW(idle) and that is a 4GB DDR3-333 so-dimm.
When fully loaded however it kicks my discharge rate from 54000mW to 56000mW a 2W increase so under load this ram consumes 2W.
It runs faster, is bigger and way less efficient most likely so the ram on the dev board should've been better it are only 2 chips going by the photo's.

Either way I deduct from this that the SoC most likely itself consumes at least 5W at full load.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Besides, when it comes to mullins, this is about as close as we're going to get to testing them. Mullins only runs windows and K1 doesn't run windows. With the difference between a 11.6 inch mullins tablet plugged into AC and a 7.6 inch K1 tablet being as big as it is, it's quite safe to say which one is faster in 3d loads...

And it's the mobile one in the 7.6 inch tablet that's outperforming mullins here, not the jetson board. Please don't confuse jetson tk1 power consumption with mobile and mobile performance with jetson tk1 performance.
You're right bluestacks is only a translation layer that pretty much nobody will use I mean having fully fledged windows just by adding keyboard and track pad is amazing. However Mullins will most likely be in sub 9 inch tablets since it needs free windows to save cash.

I don't get how safe it is to say which one wins and how can you plug AC in your tablet it is a DC device. Or do you mean socket power trough a transformer while the tegra k1 tab is on battery power. In mobile the one with the best perf/watt and best idle watage is the winner but having a viable windows running dockable tablet is a good asset too. (same can be said for android since using it as a tablet windows stinks)


Quite sad if true but clearly Intel's contra revenue bribing is working.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/mullins-cant-find-design-wins/77479.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=mullins-cant-find-design-wins
post #36 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

If you get lower SoC power something is different being it more stable voltage or it having lower clocks. Of course this is with the memory included which will definitly be something but on my laptop removing a stick of ram reduces the power usage by only 300mW(idle) and that is a 4GB DDR3-333 so-dimm.
When fully loaded however it kicks my discharge rate from 54000mW to 56000mW a 2W increase so under load this ram consumes 2W.
It runs faster, is bigger and way less efficient most likely so the ram on the dev board should've been better it are only 2 chips going by the photo's.

Either way I deduct from this that the SoC most likely itself consumes at least 5W at full load.

The point is that determining the power consumption of mobile devices from the tk1 board is pretty much impossible. Too many inconsistencies and differences between the platforms. But at least we know that at full load a mobile SOC will be under 6W. By how much is another question and will depend on the device in question.
Quote:
You're right bluestacks is only a translation layer that pretty much nobody will use

Bluestacks is neat to play with but the issue is that it's not an AMD product (AMD is just partnered with the company that makes bluestacks iirc) and it's not a replacement for android compatibility at all.
Quote:
I mean having fully fledged windows just by adding keyboard and track pad is amazing. However Mullins will most likely be in sub 9 inch tablets since it needs free windows to save cash.

Free windows is nice when competing against ARM/Android devices yes.
Quote:
I don't get how safe it is to say which one wins and how can you plug AC in your tablet it is a DC device. Or do you mean socket power trough a transformer while the tegra k1 tab is on battery power.

Yes I mean that the device is plugged in to the wall. Of course the thing actually takes DC.

Double edged sword here.

On one hand intel giving engineering help to companies so they can drop arm in favor of x86 and then offering low prices on baytrail SOCs will mean more (and cheap) x86 devices for consumers. And no it wont stop in the future with intel ripping everyone off, this is to offset the huge platform BoM cost of baytrail, not the SOC itself. This issue should be fixed in the future versions of atoms.

But on the other hand while intel is fighting ARM manufacturers (as they say, 80-90% of their baytrail sales were for Android devices) guys like AMD are caught in the crossfire. It sucks for their design wins but at the moment they need competitive pricing or those potential design wins wont happen. I would assume that AMD has similar bom cost problems as intel but doesn't have the money to deal with it yet. So they may need a generation or two to work that out as well.

But that's getting quite far off topic in a mipad/tegra thread...
 
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post #37 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor 116 View Post

Shouldn't be long until Apple files a lawsuit, Calling it now.

You must not have heard of Banana phone looks a lot like Apple phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Good luck to Apple suing Xiaomi in China, they've got more chance of his holiness Steve Jobs resurrecting.

They'll sue in America.
Edited by sepiashimmer - 5/16/14 at 1:14pm
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post #38 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
On one hand intel giving engineering help to companies so they can drop arm in favor of x86 and then offering low prices on baytrail SOCs will mean more (and cheap) x86 devices for consumers. And no it wont stop in the future with intel ripping everyone off, this is to offset the huge platform BoM cost of baytrail, not the SOC itself. This issue should be fixed in the future versions of atoms.

But on the other hand while intel is fighting ARM manufacturers (as they say, 80-90% of their baytrail sales were for Android devices) guys like AMD are caught in the crossfire. It sucks for their design wins but at the moment they need competitive pricing or those potential design wins wont happen. I would assume that AMD has similar bom cost problems as intel but doesn't have the money to deal with it yet. So they may need a generation or two to work that out as well.

But that's getting quite far off topic in a mipad/tegra thread...
Yes indeed BOM cost is one of the only thing OEMs care about just look at all those 1366x768 screens in laptops. I spotted a 300 euro Beema laptop the A6-6310 model made by lenovo. Now the thing is you would need to redo the storage with a SSD and probably replace the battery cells and the screen too. but it could yield such a great product with a battery life of like 20 hours. What I'm saying if pulling 12wH on a notebook which is at low usage I guess you could infact have browsing usage for 20 hours which is amazing. you could use it non stop at Mullins clocks it could be even better since when you're not using the gpu you will use even less.
There are big benefits to these low power processors.
post #39 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Yes indeed BOM cost is one of the only thing OEMs care about just look at all those 1366x768 screens in laptops. I spotted a 300 euro Beema laptop the A6-6310 model made by lenovo. Now the thing is you would need to redo the storage with a SSD and probably replace the battery cells and the screen too. but it could yield such a great product with a battery life of like 20 hours. What I'm saying if pulling 12wH on a notebook which is at low usage I guess you could infact have browsing usage for 20 hours which is amazing. you could use it non stop at Mullins clocks it could be even better since when you're not using the gpu you will use even less.
There are big benefits to these low power processors.

i'm about to make your day, in two ways...
OfT http://www.reddit.com/r/APUsilicon/comments/25p5ka/upcoming_amd_notebooks_mullinsbeemakaveri/ a growing list of upcoming amd notebooks
OnT http://www.evolife.cn/html/2014/77075.html some more tk1 data points
post #40 of 80
Xaiomi beat Apple to their press event.

I guarantee they will repeat the iPhone 5c move with the iPad mini and market an A7 based iPad mini in an injection moulded colored case (To retire the A5 platform and keep their margins).

But now there is a competitor that released their product before Apple's so litigation will be less effective.

EDIT: Also excited to see NV gaining some traction in their mobile division. Back in the Zune days I thought they were screwed.
Edited by SyncMaster753 - 5/16/14 at 4:13pm
    
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