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[Anand] Xiaomi Announces the MiPad with Tegra K1 and Denver - Page 5

post #41 of 80
I'd buy one just to run a dreamcast emulator on. G2 just isn't big enough.
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post #42 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstercameron View Post

i'm about to make your day, in two ways...
OfT http://www.reddit.com/r/APUsilicon/comments/25p5ka/upcoming_amd_notebooks_mullinsbeemakaveri/ a growing list of upcoming amd notebooks
OnT http://www.evolife.cn/html/2014/77075.html some more tk1 data points
Yeah I was browsing it earlier this day, great there are some design wins too bad they are pretty much all low battery cap, non SSD and low res screen. Still for a 250 to 400 euro price tag maybe ~500 for the high end Kaveri models they are an exceptional good deal.

Those K1 numbers look exceptional it completely stomps Qualcomm's SoC
post #43 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Yeah I was browsing it earlier this day, great there are some design wins too bad they are pretty much all low battery cap, non SSD and low res screen. Still for a 250 to 400 euro price tag maybe ~500 for the high end Kaveri models they are an exceptional good deal.

Those K1 numbers look exceptional it completely stomps Qualcomm's SoC

K1 edges out Mullins in GPU performance by 5% but is slower on CPU performance. K1 TDP is still not confirmed but I am guessing it is 5w. So I don't think its exceptional. K1 leads Snapdragon 801 by 25% on GPU performance. On CPU perf a Krait at 2.5 Ghz in the S805 will be on par or slightly behind a A15 at 2.2 Ghz on the K1.

3DMark Icestorm Unlimited

http://techreport.com/review/26377/a-first-look-at-amd-mullins-mobile-apu/4
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/snapdragon-801-performance-xperia-z2,3777-5.html
http://www.evolife.cn/html/2014/77075.html
http://img.evolife.cn/2014-05/ee69eaf0f03a99c7.jpg

Tegra K1 - 25737
Mullins - 24775
Snapdragon 801- 19962

btw Qualcomm already announced the Snapdragon 805 . It has a completely new DX11 class GPU - Adreno 430. There is a 40% expected increase in shader bound benchmarks. Given that 805 is already shipping and will soon be available in devices, the fair comparison is Tegra K1 vs Mullins vs S805. In that case K1 doesn't look extraordinary. Mullins is already competitive against K1. S805 should match or beat K1.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7537/qualcomms-snapdragon-805-25ghz-128bit-memory-interface-d3d11class-graphics-more

"We’re expecting to see devices based on the Snapdragon 805 to be shipping in the first half of 2014, so Snapdragon 800 will still enjoy some time at the top of the charts.

The Snapdragon 805 features Qualcomm’s Adreno 420, designed 100% in house at Qualcomm. Adreno 420 brings about a D3D11-class feature set to Qualcomm’s mobile graphics, adding support for hull, domain and geometry shaders. Adreno 420 also includes dedicated tessellation hardware. Full profile OpenCL 1.2 is now supported. Texture performance improves by over 2x per pipe, and also gains ASTC support.

Adreno 420 is more efficient at moving data around internally. The GPU has a new dedicated connection to the memory controller, whereas in previous designs the GPU shared a bus with the video decoder and ISP.

Qualcomm insists on occluding things like shader unit counts, so all we have to report today are a 40% increase in shader bound benchmarks (implying a 40% increase in shader hardware and/or more efficient hardware). "

Meanwhile to give you an idea on how good Mullins is look at WebPXRT

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7974/amd-beema-mullins-architecture-a10-micro-6700t-performance-preview/3
http://www.evolife.cn/html/2014/77075_2.html
http://img.evolife.cn/2014-05/64a9bb93b9d3dadd.jpg
http://principledtechnologies.com/benchmarkxprt/webxprt/

"WebXPRT 2013 uses scenarios created to mirror the tasks you do every day to compare the performance of almost any Web-enabled device. It contains four HTML5- and JavaScript-based workloads: Photo Effects, Face Detect, Stocks Dashboard, and Offline Notes.
WebXPRT runs on a wide variety of devices and operating systems—from iPad tablets to Android phones to Windows computers. WebXPRT is available to the public and runs right from your browser."

WebPXRT 2013

A10 Micro 6700T (Mullins) - 743
Tegra K1 - 433
S801 - 386

Given S805 is a highly integrated mobile chip with LTE baseband its the superior SOC. K1 is a tough sell against S805. K1 will do better than Mullins in terms of design wins given that it runs on an ARM A15 chip and Android while Mullins runs on x86 and Windows. Android is dominant in tablets/phones.

Next year will be an interesting contest as we will have 20nm SOCs from Qualcomm, AMD, Nvidia . AMD will have ARM A57 SOCs running Android and Next gen x86 Puma+ SOCs running Windows.
Edited by raghu78 - 5/17/14 at 4:25am
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post #44 of 80
^ The K1 numbers you have there are much lower than the ones from the mipad. 3dmark scores for the K1 in the mipad are in the 29.5K range. Not 25K.

The guys making that test never said what device they were testing with but since it has 4 gigs of memory it's definitely not a jetson board or a mipad. Only thing I've seen that even potentially had 4 gigs of memory was the prototype shield device and assuming someone got one it shouldn't be taken as representative due to being a prototype. So why use the really low numbers that came from some unidentified device?

Also as techspot says mullins' performance drops as soon as you unplug the device.

And instead of using a single bench to compare the rest of the chip here's a whole bunch of K1 competing against the desktop AM1 CPUs:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia_tk1_amdam1&num=2
Edited by Alatar - 5/17/14 at 4:42am
 
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post #45 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

^ The K1 numbers you have there are much lower than the ones from the mipad. 3dmark scores for the K1 in the mipad are in the 29.5K range. Not 25K.

The guys making that test never said what device they were testing with but since it has 4 gigs of memory it's definitely not a jetson board or a mipad. Only thing I've seen that even potentially had 4 gigs of memory was the prototype shield device and assuming someone got one it shouldn't be taken as representative due to being a prototype. So why use the really low numbers that came from some unidentified device?

Also as techspot says mullins' performance drops as soon as you unplug the device.

And instead of using a single bench to compare the rest of the chip here's a whole bunch of K1 competing against the desktop AM1 CPUs:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia_tk1_amdam1&num=2

Alatar until we see reputed sites run a full suite of benchmark tests (CPU and GPU) along with power consumption numbers we will never know. btw comparing K1 with S801 is not representative of the competition given that we will have devices with S805 shipping in the same timeframe when devices with K1 ship. Nvidia has a habit of benchmarking a year old silicon and competing against last year's top of the line SOCs. You will see when the final reviews are out that K1 is just about on par in performance for higher power draw. Thats been the problem with Nvidia in the mobile market. They have been overpromising and underdelivering in the mobile market for years now. Thats reflected in the fall of Tegra division sales.
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post #46 of 80
What do previous tegra chips have to do with using the absolute lowest numbers available from an unknown device? Just because tegra has a questionable track record doesn't mean that we should assume that the worst numbers out there are the right ones. Especially when we don't even have a clue where they're coming from...

The mipad with the K1 has already been benchmarked by someone other than Xiaomi or Nvidia:



And the numbers pretty much exactly match those of the marketing slides for the mipad. So I'd say that it's safe to say that the K1 in the mipad does indeed get ~29.5K in 3dmark.

29.5K in a 7.9 inch tablet is pretty nice.

Even in GFXBench mullins for example gets 37fps in the same test where K1 gets 60.

http://www.techspot.com/article/810-amd-beema-and-mullins-preview/page4.html
Edited by Alatar - 5/17/14 at 5:02am
 
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post #47 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

What do previous tegra chips have to do with using the absolute lowest numbers available from an unknown device? Just because tegra has a questionable track record doesn't mean that we should assume that the worst numbers out there are the right ones. Especially when we don't even have a clue where they're coming from...

The mipad with the K1 has already been benchmarked by someone other than Xiaomi or Nvidia:



And the numbers pretty much exactly match those of the marketing slides for the mipad. So I'd say that it's safe to say that the K1 in the mipad does indeed get ~29.5K in 3dmark.

29.5K in a 7.9 inch tablet is pretty nice.

Even in GFXBench mullins for example gets 37fps in the same test where K1 gets 60.

http://www.techspot.com/article/810-amd-beema-and-mullins-preview/page4.html

where is the weblink for the mipad review ? did they measure power consumption ? were the clocks throttling on a sufficiently long benchmark session ? These are questions which need to be answered. thats why i said full reviews from reputed sites. btw previous Tegra chips show that Nvidia overpromises to build hype and underdelivers in the final shipping product. Thats the reason for OEMs to drop Tegra and go with Snapdragon. Also as I said K1 competes with S805 so lets wait and see how full reviews rate both these products.
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post #48 of 80
Where are the same numbers for mullins?

AMD did not allow power or battery life measurements, all testing had to be done in AMD offices, and the devices were mostly plugged in, which as techspot noted, raises performance by around 10%. The reference tablets were also much bigger at 11.6 inches than the 7.9inch tegra K1 mipads that we see here.

There's no throttling info for mullins, there's no power info for mullins, and there's no battery life info for mullins. From the reputable sources that you talk about that is.

And as I said already, the mipad numbers were leaked benchmarks. No one has reviewed one yet. But from the leaked benches we do know that the numbers in the marketing slides of Xiaomi are indeed correct. You could always argue that it could throttle or something like that, but you only seem to be making that argument when it comes to Tegra, not the other SOCs. The same also applies to the other benchmarks you're posting. Those chips can throttle as well.

Fact of the matter is that the mipad is clearly much more than 5% faster in the 3d department than the ref discovery tablet from AMD. And it makes sense architecture wise as well if you look at the hardware under the hood.
 
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post #49 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Where are the same numbers for mullins?

AMD did not allow power or battery life measurements, all testing had to be done in AMD offices, and the devices were mostly plugged in, which as techspot noted, raises performance by around 10%. The reference tablets were also much bigger at 11.6 inches than the 7.9inch tegra K1 mipads that we see here.

There's no throttling info for mullins, there's no power info for mullins, and there's no battery life info for mullins. From the reputable sources that you talk about that is.

And as I said already, the mipad numbers were leaked benchmarks. No one has reviewed one yet. But from the leaked benches we do know that the numbers in the marketing slides of Xiaomi are indeed correct. You could always argue that it could throttle or something like that, but you only seem to be making that argument when it comes to Tegra, not the other SOCs. The same also applies to the other benchmarks you're posting. Those chips can throttle as well.

Fact of the matter is that the mipad is clearly much more than 5% faster in the 3d department than the ref discovery tablet from AMD. And it makes sense architecture wise as well if you look at the hardware under the hood.
Well there are none but the discovery tablet is an in house AMD design with major flaws. like the backlight invertor next to the other power phases making that part of the tablet run exceptionally hot costing efficiency. (don't recall which reviewer stated this I'd have to look that up)
post #50 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Where are the same numbers for mullins?

AMD did not allow power or battery life measurements, all testing had to be done in AMD offices, and the devices were mostly plugged in, which as techspot noted, raises performance by around 10%. The reference tablets were also much bigger at 11.6 inches than the 7.9inch tegra K1 mipads that we see here.

There's no throttling info for mullins, there's no power info for mullins, and there's no battery life info for mullins. From the reputable sources that you talk about that is.

And as I said already, the mipad numbers were leaked benchmarks. No one has reviewed one yet. But from the leaked benches we do know that the numbers in the marketing slides of Xiaomi are indeed correct. You could always argue that it could throttle or something like that, but you only seem to be making that argument when it comes to Tegra, not the other SOCs. The same also applies to the other benchmarks you're posting. Those chips can throttle as well.

I agree that we will not know Mullins actual performance till we have independent reviews. But I am not the one claiming that K1 is outright superior than Mullins. You are the one. Thats why we need actual testing by independent reviews of actual shipping products. If AMD does not have any design wins for Mullins at Computex then we can write them off. But for Qualcomm you know they are the market leader and have the lion's share of design wins. So S805 is a different story altogether. lets wait and see how the two fare in performance and power.
Quote:

Fact of the matter is that the mipad is clearly much more than 5% faster in the 3d department than the ref discovery tablet from AMD. And it makes sense architecture wise as well if you look at the hardware under the hood.

btw where is the weblink for the mipad review. Since you pick a review which shows 29.5k and I showed one with 25k we cannot tell which one is correct until we see more reviews. also GCN is as efficient if not more efficient than Kepler. That is proven by Pitcairn against GK106. If you take Hawaii vs GK110, AMD beats Nvidia in perf / sq mm by atleast 20% (given a 30% smaller die size and a 8-9% lower performance) while Nvidia does the same in terms of perf / watt. AMD gave up some power efficiency by choosing to go for a very dense Hawaii chip design. So if anything Kepler and GCN are closely matched on perf/watt and perf/ sq mm if you normalize for both die area and power.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Anand] Xiaomi Announces the MiPad with Tegra K1 and Denver