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[dailytech] Comcast to Users: Stop Using the Internet so Much, We Will Cap You - Page 9

post #81 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8800GT View Post

Boo Hoo. It's been like that in Canada for over 10 years. Is it wrong? Yes. Is it crappy? Yes. Is there anything you can do about it? No.

Exactly this lol.
For the longest time I never knew about caps until everyone in my house became a power user. (gaming, netflix, youtube etc etc etc)
post #82 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJRhoades View Post

I don't understand their reasoning.
If that's true and so few of their customers need over 300GB a month, why do they need a 350GB cap?

If they do implement a 350GB cap, we'll be paying $50/mo for 31.1 hours (or 26 if upload counts too) of internet. That's ridiculous.

And if it cost them more for those 2%, it makes sense that the 98% are saving them a crap ton of money so it should offset the cost...
post #83 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by aweir View Post

The only problem is that "data" is basically electrons which have no weight, volume, or mass. Unlike electricity, "internet" is not a byproduct of some other form. ISPs merely create the pipeline to your home so you can access the internet.

Help me explain this further...

The Internet is not a resource to be sold and controlled like a commodity.. ISPs do not own the internet, they do not make it. They can only deliver it to you, it cannot be measured or quantified. Therefore ISPs should not be able to charge you based on the amount you use since it is not a commodity.
Let me preface this by saying that I am against ISPs over-charging users.
I'd argue that the usage of the Internet is a resource to be distributed between consumers. The ISPs own the infrastructure which they invested money on to build and they charge you on the usage to recoup these costs. They are not charging you for the data, they are charging you for your right to use their bandwidth, with data being the way of making sure that everyone pays for what they use. If everyone uses the (limited) bandwidth constantly as a result of unlimited plans, the congestion would ruin everyone's experience and nobody would be able get functional speeds.
However, charging high prices for a cap is unacceptable. If you are going to make high profits, you should be forced to invest that profit back into the infrastructure to provide services on par with the prices you charge (i.e. increasing cap or removing it altogether, increasing speeds, customer service etc.). The only reason they are allowed to pocket the profits and not be worried about losing customers is because there is no competition.
Edited by guiJY - 5/15/14 at 11:49pm
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post #84 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by bojinglebells View Post

Not with that attitude. Americans revolt when we feel we are being unjustly treated.

Um no? The majority of americans know they are run by a bought government, and do nothing about it. We don't revolt at all, we just take it. Not sure what you're talking about, but last I checked we had terrible pay rates,no decent health care, mass unemployments, predatory loans, over paid officials and underpaid citizens. Just to name a few things. Most countries (excluding third world ect) have free health care, better schools, better roads, and a overall better support of the citizens needs. its such a joke.
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post #85 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberWolf575 View Post

This is insane. I don't think he realizes that with 4 people in the household, we use a total of around 400gb a month, and that is ONLY Netflix+Hulu+YouTube.

Now if I have to download a game from steam or MMO or anything..my god...that would destroy my connection. I can easily see myself going over 600gb in my household once I start playing games again.

I have Cox internet. I pay $70 a month and have a small 250gb limit. My girlfriend had surgery and after we got home all she wanted to do was watch her favorite shows on netflix since she had to stay in bed for two weeks to recover. After two days of watching netflix on and off we got an email from cox. It was a "warning" telling us we went over our 250gb limit and based on our usage we should upgrade to their last tier package which offers 400gb limit a month for $100. We were baffled. All it took was two days of watching netflix on and off to hit that 250gb limit. So for the rest of the two weeks we kept internet usage to a minimum and flipped through channels on our $60 cable package barely finding stuff to watch and renting movies from redbox.

I remember when cox first came out with bandwidth caps. There reasoning was to have something to aid them in combating "abusers." People who pirated terabytes worth of illegal data a month. To get that email from them stunned us. We never abused our internet usage. All we did was use a legal service that we pay for but I guess that too is now considered "abusing."

I hope bandwidth caps go away. All they do is hurt the internet and users who actually want to use the service they pay a lot of money for.
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post #86 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by biz1 View Post

that doesn't matter

they have costs and they provide services

heavy users paying more is a reasonable way to divide the cost


if you actually charged people for the real costs, you'll would spend more money on CS representatives than anything related to providing internet
try explaining to the average American what it takes to set up an end-to-end connection between their home and Youtube's servers and how you are calculating what fraction of that cost they should be paying, why they don't need to pay for the entire cost of setting up a 1st-time connection, why they are paying for installation that was performed by the previous property owner, etc. etc.

anyways, it's probably illegal to charge someone living in a remote area extra because you had to lay down extra cable to get there

When the cost is actually negligible it does matter. Like i said the cost between a regular user who goes no where near the cap and someone who even goes 100gb over the cap is 0. Its only when u get into tbs of overages is there even cents difference. They could allow 10tb caps and have every customer hit that and there profit per customer would only be dam near the same. You are talking about something you honestly know nothing about. Lets put it this way, comcast has the ability in lynnwood(where i worked) to provide 1,000,000tb cap. Besides miniscule charge for electricity usage, it does not cost them a dime more if customers in that area pull 500tb or the full 1,000,000.

On top of that, the x1 uses more bandwidth then a normal customer ever will on a modem. If you really think bandwisth is that important they eould be charging more for x1 users then standard hd dvr users.

you're looking at a tiny fraction of the operating cost of the corporation as a whole

someone has to pay for every cost the business has, not just the cost of transmitting bits once everything is set up.


if companies can't profit from the customers who want/need something, then there's no incentive to give them what they want.
tiered pricing is what lets companies specialize and improve the service more quickly instead of catering to the lowest common denominator.

even if most of the revenue is not actually translated into improvements to their network, some of it does trickle down.
even if we pass some law which limits how much comcast can charge, the "corporate greed" doesn't disappear. it would only result in less money being spent on upgrading the network and trying to cut corners (lowering quality of service) to stay profitable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aweir View Post

The only problem is that "data" is basically electrons which have no weight, volume, or mass. Unlike electricity, "internet" is not a byproduct of some other form. ISPs merely create the pipeline to your home so you can access the internet.

Help me explain this further...

The Internet is not a resource to be sold and controlled like a commodity.. ISPs do not own the internet, they do not make it. They can only deliver it to you, it cannot be measured or quantified. Therefore ISPs should not be able to charge you based on the amount you use since it is not a commodity.

router cost measurable amounts of money.
upgrades/maintenance costs measurable amounts of money.
running corporations to handle these processes costs measurable amounts of money.

would comcast need to upgrade anything if people just needed to check email? not really
why should the people who are just checking email pay for the upgrades comcast is doing so that the rest of us can watch 500 gb of netflix every month? (ironically, that's what they have done for the past 20 years, and they have my thanks thumb.gif)
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post #87 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by biz1 View Post

would comcast need to upgrade anything if people just needed to check email? not really
why should the people who are just checking email pay for the upgrades comcast is doing so that the rest of us can watch 500 gb of netflix every month? (ironically, that's what they have done for the past 20 years, and they have my thanks thumb.gif)

Can you explain how in my country, оne of the poorest in Europe. My internet speed went from 15KB/s to 3.3 MB/s for about 8 years. The price didn't change, it is still 9 Euros or 12$ the cheapest possible contract on my ISP and it is Unlimited. That is in my hometown with about 33k people. So my ISP manage to upgrade their infrastructure, but ISP in USA can't because they don't have enough money. I find that really fishy. They even exchange my modem for a WiFi one and I didn't pay.
Edited by Myst-san - 5/16/14 at 2:36am
post #88 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by biz1 View Post

you're looking at a tiny fraction of the operating cost of the corporation as a whole

someone has to pay for every cost the business has, not just the cost of transmitting bits once everything is set up.


if companies can't profit from the customers who want/need something, then there's no incentive to give them what they want.
tiered pricing is what lets companies specialize and improve the service more quickly instead of catering to the lowest common denominator.

even if most of the revenue is not actually translated into improvements to their network, some of it does trickle down.
even if we pass some law which limits how much comcast can charge, the "corporate greed" doesn't disappear. it would only result in less money being spent on upgrading the network and trying to cut corners (lowering quality of service) to stay profitable.
router cost measurable amounts of money.
upgrades/maintenance costs measurable amounts of money.
running corporations to handle these processes costs measurable amounts of money.

would comcast need to upgrade anything if people just needed to check email? not really
why should the people who are just checking email pay for the upgrades comcast is doing so that the rest of us can watch 500 gb of netflix every month? (ironically, that's what they have done for the past 20 years, and they have my thanks thumb.gif)
That's why you pay for different speeds at tiers. Because delivering faster speed requires more infrastructure and backbone which is actually a tangible cost. Bandwidth is the product of infrastructure that is already set up. The moment they have the infrastructure, bandwidth is damn near unlimited only limited to the throughput of the backbone, which is supported by charging higher prices for speeds. Tiered internet is fine when it is economically viable for both the company and the user. But tiered internet based on an almost fictional asset such as bandwidth is absolutely ridiculous. You seem to think that they are ever upgrading their servers, back ends, and hubs...which they are not.

I guarantee comcast has the infrastructure to give the internet to the entire USA with unlimited caps and still turn a hefty profit.
post #89 of 202
then the concurences will do the same , then they will fight over the limit until the market pressure drive it back to unlimited and they will start again , just to make extra money on our ass.

but to be honest on the matter of speed / bandwith , why is your electricity bill not charged as function of the voltage ? it doesn't require more infrastructure to give you more watts , only to give you more volts , basically they would charge you for internet like they charge for electricity, that kinda make sens since they need hardware to provide you with connection and it cost money etc etc. So you need to pay for infrastructure and the running cost of it .
it don't say i m for this , it just make sens compare to other utilities like water and electricity , you don't pay water by pressure , but quantity,...
Edited by Ashuiegi - 5/16/14 at 4:28am
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post #90 of 202
I have comcast.

I have the fastest service available to me from them in my area.
It's supposed to be 105Mb/s down and 20Mbps up. So it's fairly close, I am happy with it currently as I am not capped.


I have used according to comcast on their data usage tracker.
925GB as of May 16, 2014 for the past 30 days.

Highest I have seen it for a 30day period was 1705GB.

I am a normal user in my eyes. I do not download any illegal software or share music and movies and such. I assume most of my data usage comes from my Linux habit from distro hopping. I also have steam shared on 2 devices, my main rig and the htpc. I have a PS3 and Wii that also get used as Netflix devices in other rooms so family members can watch what they want.
There are several phones connected as well. All the data that passes through my network is filtered, scanned from my firewall/router box.

All I know is, there is no point in having fast internet access if you cannot use it. If they were to cap me at anything less than 1000GB/mo I would be better off going with there cheapest slowest connection so I wouldn't reach the cap so fast. I pay $100/mo for just internet, no cable, no phone just the net, I supplied my own modem as I refuse to rent a modem.

Just by doing some distro hopping and downloading a game once or twice can easily put me over 40GB in one day.

So....
If any isp sets caps I feel they must allow an uncapped settings for a specified amount of money. Kinda like, if all residential customers are capped but you can buy a business line to uncap yourself, then so be it, business plan it is. But it still has to be within reason cost wise imo.
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