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Amd cpus vs Intel cpus for gaming. - Page 3

post #21 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by gridlock33 View Post

They got sooo much heat for that piece too. biggrin.gif
Yeah I was afraid to post it here, don't have a flame retardant jacket on :O
post #22 of 59
Thread Starter 
I like thay kid Logan seems to be a straight shooter, but I can tell he perfers intel I rearely see him testing a amd based system.Ive seen alot of his reviews seems to know what hes talking about. Are both chip makers intel and amd from the states btw? Iam real curious as to why other countrys like China for example havent devoloped there own chip company, Germens as well I wonder why we are the only 2 guys on the block.Espicaly when it comes to electronics its almost impossible to beat Japan, they have the best quality and the best tech majority of the time, Do you guys see a 3rd comapny coming along to challange both intel and amd?
post #23 of 59
Thread Starter 
Sorry for double post, my question about the possibilty of a 3rd company to challange intel and amd, would this be a benafit for guys like us or would it hurt the industry even more? ......You know what they say when companys compete for your buissness the customer reeps the rewards usually.It would be interesting to see a company like sony or samsung start building good gaming cpus, even more interesting would be if they had better performance then both intel and amd! Lol.
post #24 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by PcGamer1977 View Post

Sorry for double post, my question about the possibilty of a 3rd company to challange intel and amd, would this be a benafit for guys like us or would it hurt the industry even more? ......You know what they say when companys compete for your buissness the customer reeps the rewards usually.It would be interesting to see a company like sony or samsung start building good gaming cpus, even more interesting would be if they had better performance then both intel and amd! Lol.

Well they would have to get permission from Intel to use x86, so doubt another player would come into the market.

I had both an i7 3770k system and a FX 8320 (OC) in the past year paired with a GTX 670. I honestly don't really see any huge performance differences cept for a few fps here and there.

Another theory is that since the new consoles are using AMD jaguar 8 cores, the FX 8 core processors may start being utilized better in the future for games.
post #25 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by PcGamer1977 View Post

Sorry for double post, my question about the possibilty of a 3rd company to challange intel and amd, would this be a benafit for guys like us or would it hurt the industry even more? ......You know what they say when companys compete for your buissness the customer reeps the rewards usually.It would be interesting to see a company like sony or samsung start building good gaming cpus, even more interesting would be if they had better performance then both intel and amd! Lol.


Intel has fabs that no company on earth could ever dream of replicating. They also have intellectual property that is unmatched on this planet by any company in existence. Who do you think sets every hardware standard there is? Its Intel.
post #26 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by PcGamer1977 View Post

Sorry for double post, my question about the possibilty of a 3rd company to challange intel and amd, would this be a benafit for guys like us or would it hurt the industry even more? ......You know what they say when companys compete for your buissness the customer reeps the rewards usually.It would be interesting to see a company like sony or samsung start building good gaming cpus, even more interesting would be if they had better performance then both intel and amd! Lol.

Intel has had competition from Cyrix, Centaur, Via, NEC, IBM, TI, STM, Fujitsu, OKI, Siemens, Intersil, C&T, NexGen, UMC, AMD, and DM&P all either fabbed x86 CPUs or designed them. Some of them designed them from scratch. A large portion of these companies either stopped making x86 CPUs because Intel threatened them or sued them.

Intel is a company that pays people to use their products if their products are not competitive. It is not a welcoming market for new companies. If you really want out of the AMD and Intel duopoly, you're going to have to look at something besides x86 like MIPS, ARM, etc.

Read up about the sorts of things Intel pulls. Like, before Transmeta went under, Intel managed to basically gain full control of Transmeta IP perpetually. It's really horrifying what Intel has done when you start to look into the past and you understand that x86 is this demon that should disappear. Not because it's bad, but because of Intel.
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post #27 of 59
My FX4300 at 4.8Ghz was quite a bit slower than my i3 4330, it was actually pretty ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

Intel has fabs that no company on earth could ever dream of replicating. They also have intellectual property that is unmatched on this planet by any company in existence. Who do you think sets every hardware standard there is? Its Intel.

Keep in mind those 8 cores are stupidly slow. Wouldn't shock me if they're only equivalent to an i3, judging my the Kabini reviews. I'm not convinced consoles are going to drive up thread count used in games.

OP, I wouldn't really worry about a comparison of a 6300 and a 3770K, they aren't meant to compete at all. AMD is great if you're on a budget(or just don't like Intel for whatever reason) and like to tinker. Other wise, you'll probably have a better gaming experience on an i3 or none K i5 for the next few years, then on an AMD CPU at any clock speed. The K CPU aren't even a really a comparison TBH.

I swapped back and forth between an fx4300 at 4.8 and a 4330 for about a week, and I really didn't think AMD was that far behind until I did so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Intel has had competition from Cyrix, Centaur, Via, NEC, IBM, TI, STM, Fujitsu, OKI, Siemens, Intersil, C&T, NexGen, UMC, AMD, and DM&P all either fabbed x86 CPUs or designed them. Some of them designed them from scratch. A large portion of these companies either stopped making x86 CPUs because Intel threatened them or sued them.

Intel is a company that pays people to use their products if their products are not competitive. It is not a welcoming market for new companies. If you really want out of the AMD and Intel duopoly, you're going to have to look at something besides x86 like MIPS, ARM, etc.

Read up about the sorts of things Intel pulls. Like, before Transmeta went under, Intel managed to basically gain full control of Transmeta IP perpetually. It's really horrifying what Intel has done when you start to look into the past and you understand that x86 is this demon that should disappear. Not because it's bad, but because of Intel.

This is business. I would imagine you would read about similar things from any major corporation on the planet. Big business is about big money and nothing else. Personally those tactics don't really bother me, since it's most likely common practice(if you're successful that is).
Edited by Horsemama1956 - 5/16/14 at 6:51pm
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post #28 of 59
Thread Starter 
Well in a sence they are just protecting their best interest, yeah ive read about them cheating on benchmark scores, paying companys to use intel only among other things but I cant say I hate them, I would probbly do the same thing to protect my company.You gotta do what you gotta do I guess?......Ive noticed 95% of desktops all run Intel cpus, just a few years ago things were diffrent you had a good portion amd and the rest intel, now everythings intel based basicly.I guess thats bad news for amd? Its better when things are more evenly matchedni think.
post #29 of 59
Thread Starter 
Iam hoping ill see the diffrence myself soon, I have a total of 3 amd systems in our house each one has its own reason I guess but until I can actually see for myself the diffrence like I said an intel based build is long overdue for me thats why I wanted to ask you guys for your opinions.I can sign up for a program called intel retail edge and get a 4930k for about 150bucks, what motherboard do you guys recommend? I was thinking x79 saberkitten? Lol
post #30 of 59
Hello PcGamer1977,

When tested in the same conditions that show a $110 FX-6100 performing the same as a $300 i7, a $110 i3 will perform the same as a $300 FX-9590. When we see these results that show no deviation in performance with drastic differences in the CPU, we know that no comparison of CPU performance has been demonstrated. It's a popular tactic to showing that weak CPUs perform the same as expensive CPUs in gaming, and it can be used to demonstrate that ANY inexpensive CPU (AMD or Intel) has enormous "value" for gamers in some conditions. The problem with this approach, is that "some conditions" can only be met in a hypothetical gaming environment that consistently chooses the GPU bottle-necked condition. Unfortunately, in the real world, this hypothetical that can be used to paint all CPUs as equally good in gaming comes around to bite as there are plenty of games that are heavily CPU dependent and very popular. In fact, many of the games that are heavily CPU bound, can not be benchmarked in those conditions (multi-player) because there is no way to re-create an exact sequence of events replicating the same test for multiple hardware configurations. BF3/4 are great examples of games that are indeed effected substantially by CPU performance in MP situations. Furthermore, the way in which game-engines are CPU dependent still primarily favors core performance over parallelism. This is an uncontrollable side effect of workloads that are forced to maintain a coherent timeline. Even modern game engines taking advantage of the latest development techniques and compiler optimization options can not scale into execution performance from parallelism as well as they can scale into per-core performance. Simply put, if given the option to have A: 50% more cores, or B: 50% more per core performance, option B will always perform better than option A in real-time workloads like gaming. In many cases, additional cores do nothing for performance (this applies to BOTH Intel and AMD). The best comparison to illustrate this would be an AMD 1035T vs PII 980. Both have very similar overall combined execution performance (the 1035T is even a bit better in this sense), but the PII 980 would perform better in any CPU bound game regardless of how well optimized the game engine is for high core count machines.

It's not an issue of AMD vs Intel. It's CPU vs CPU at a given implementation cost. In order to demonstrate this, observe the implementation cost of an i5-4670K overclocked to 4.5ghz, vs the implementation cost of an i7-4790, very similar. The i5@4.5ghz, will have ~10-25% better performance in workloads that do not scale beyond 4 threads. While the i7 will be able to perform comparably to the overclocked i5 in workloads that can scale into the benefits of hyperthreading (which provides up to a ~35% improvement in execution throughput in some workloads, allowing the 3.6ghz base clock to trade blows with the overclocked i5 in workloads that produce high execution port saturation). In this case, if you're compiling or rendering or trans-coding, either option performs about the same so take whichever path tickles your fancy, on the other-hand, the overclocked i5 will perform better in gaming workloads because it offers a better consolidation of execution resources. This same approach to comparing CPU performance can be applied whether comparing an AMD vs AMD CPU, or an Intel vs Intel, or Intel vs AMD. Another fantastic example that eliminates the brand vs brand debate, An overclocked FX-6300 performs better in most games than a stock clocked FX-8350, and the FX-6300 typically has the same implementation price as the stock clocked FX-8350.

Does AMD or Intel get more FPS? I encourage you not to think about it in terms of AMD vs Intel. Stick with CPU vs CPU. Often this will involve an Intel CPU on one side of the chart vs an AMD on the other side, but there does not need to be any worry about brand warfare within such a discussion as who killed the baby seals is irrelevant. It's just a matter of determining which CPU offers the best performance in gaming for a particular price point that factors in potential overclocked options (where applicable and if the user is willing/able/etc).

The trend that you will find emerging when you fairly compare CPUs vs CPUs within any given implementation cost (remember OCing and chip selection effects power dissipation demands, which can adjust the cost of the motherboard, HSF, and PSU in some cases), is that there are more cases where current Intel CPUs offer better performance in a wider variety of games than vice verse. Due to the vast gap in execution resources per core, there are scenarios where Intel CPUs are performing on par or better than AMD CPUs costing twice as much to implement in CPU bound workloads. There are no scenarios where AMD CPUs are performing on par or better than any Intel CPUs costing twice as much to implement in CPU bound workloads. This is telling, as it means that Intel CPU design is currently better suited to existing workloads, and offers better value more often than not. This does not mean Intel is a better company, it means they have produced a better solution to overcome existing challenges.
Edited by mdocod - 5/16/14 at 9:28pm
     
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