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PETG Tubing VS Acrylic Tubing Pros + Cons - Page 38

post #371 of 380
I'm glad you revived this thread as I'm contemplating a new hardline build as well. I've seen some rigs in person with PETG and they do appear to be a bit cloudy and have visible scratches. The guy from Singularity Computers also prefers acrylic tubing and uses it on all his client builds and based on his build logs, I hold his opinion in high regard. I'm also going to be using fittings for my bends, so for all these reasons, I'm leaning heavily to using 12mm acrylic tubing from Bitspower
post #372 of 380
I've used both of them it's kinda potato potAto acrylics a bit less forgiving but make sure you get UV stable of you get PETG this tube was in the loop for a month or so right under a UV cathode completely shot never buy EK PETG again
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post #373 of 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aj86 View Post

I've used both of them it's kinda potato potAto acrylics a bit less forgiving but make sure you get UV stable of you get PETG this tube was in the loop for a month or so right under a UV cathode completely shot never buy EK PETG again

Not all PETG is created equal. It does take a lot of practice. This is my preffered tubing though.


and my system.

post #374 of 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsutter71 View Post

Not all PETG is created equal. It does take a lot of practice. This is my preffered tubing though.


and my system.


Nice I still have 1 bend left to redo in mine waiting on some fittings to arrive tomorrow since I changed the routing completely, as Colin Chapman of Lotus put it Simplify, then add lightness
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post #375 of 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aj86 View Post

Nice I still have 1 bend left to redo in mine waiting on some fittings to arrive tomorrow since I changed the routing completely, as Colin Chapman of Lotus put it Simplify, then add lightness

When I first started my loop I spent a fortune. Several hundred dollars on angled fittings. When I first put my loop together with said angled fittings, I did not like how much wiggle room their was. Maybe it was because I was using all EK fittings, but I noticed that their was far less movement when I removed the fittings altogether. So I made the decision to only use angled fittings as a last resort. In the main compartment of my PC the only place I used angled fittings was after the video card and that was because the power cables left me no other choice. Even in the bottom chamber I kept it to a absolute minimum. I also noticed that my flow increased by about .5 LPM with fewer angled fittings.


You can see the one spot in the main chamber I used angled fittings after leaving the GPU block


In the lower chamber I used only 1 angled fitting going into the dual pump which also allowed me to add a drain point.
post #376 of 380
My Primochill PETG loop is coming up on 2 years, tubing still looks like new. Distilled water and PT Nuke PHN only.
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post #377 of 380
I've been going back and forth on doing a water loop for my last several builds but have never pulled the trigger because I wasn't sure it was worth the time and hassle. Now that I'm getting ready to do another build I'm having the same debate (again) and I think the look/durability of hard line may have tipped the scale. I came upon this thread because I was looking for some info on the differences between acrylic and PETG and I have to say: some of the nonsense in this thread (and elsewhere) is pretty appalling. I don't have a horse in the race (so to speak) so I thought I'd post some of my thoughts on the subject:

1) People need to understand that there is a LOT of bad information floating around the internet and you need to fact check before you post. I've seen a number of "tutorials" on how to bend acrylic that are flat out telling people to do things that will compromise the strength/integrity of the material. For example, I've seen a bunch of people saying to "quench" the tube after bending it... which is a TERRIBLE idea. Bending acrylic isn't like forging a sword, and most materials when taken from hot to cold to rapidly will be weakened tremendously if they don't flat out break. In other words: there are a lot of people out there who don't know what they are doing, and the fact is that acrylic is only prone to cracking or shattering if you've done a poor job of heating/bending it. It isn't brittle or weak at all, so it's pretty safe to assume that people who have had problems like that are almost entirely from user error and not some characteristic of the material.

2) If you're going to claim a position of "expertise" as a way to validate your argument (such as being an Engineer) then not only does your information have to be correct, but also relevant. I saw someone post a few pages back about how PETG actually has the higher melting point and they went on and on... but the entire argument is baseless. Why? Because it doesn't matter at what temperature the materials melt, it only matters at what temperature they deform. It is a fact that PETG deforms (and thus bends) at significantly lower temperatures, which means that in the event of a major failure where the system continues running (and heating up) the PETG tubing will deform in situations where acrylic won't. Even if PETG does have a higher melting point it's meaningless because at those temperatures the machine is toast regardless of which material you've chosen. Context is a thing, even if he/she was technically correct it wasn't relevant and only serves to confuse people by muddying the discussion.

3) People need to stop bringing up the "hammer" test and tensile strength and all the other things that either: a) don't apply or b) they don't understand. I'm not sure if the video I saw was the same video people were referring to, but the one I came across was so flawed (and biased) that I was literally laughing at how absurd it was. First of all, the method of heating was inconsistent. He had no way of controlling the rotation or distance the materials were heated at and didn't have any clear indicator of when the tubes were properly heated. Second, he waited pretty varied amounts of time between when he bent the tubes and when he "quenched" them. Third, he quenched them. Which aside from having a negative effect in general, has a differing impact on either material (IE: it doesn't affect each equally) and regardless of any other factors invalidates any "conclusions". Fourth, in the other tests (snapping/hammering) the force being applied was neither measured or consistent. It was pretty obvious even to a casual observer that he was skewing his tests in order to achieve his desired conclusion. Finally... none of it matters, because no one hammers their system and most people don't even touch, let alone move their towers, and if you do then perhaps you should take measures to make sure you protect the system and NOT DROP IT.

4) Everything has pros/cons, and neither material is the IDEAL solution for everyone. It depends on what YOU value most. For someone who doesn't mind the time/cost of learning to bend acrylic properly then I'd say it's clearly the better material, but that isn't saying it's better for everyone, just in that situation. For someone who doesn't want to spend a lot of time/money learning (and re-doing) bends to get them perfect, then PETG is going to be much simpler/easier and is clearly going to be the better material. It all comes down to each individual making their own choice.

5) You need to understand the motivation behind how/why companies would choose to release a "new" product that competes with their OWN products in the same category. It would need to either a) be a vastly superior and thus more expensive product, or b) be a cheaper/easier to manufacture product that will cost less or provide some other benefit to the company. If PETG was the superior material (in general) then I can assure you it wouldn't be less expensive. Period. Not even if it was vastly cheaper to manufacture, if it was better it would cost more than acrylic unless the market was dying and lowering costs was the only way to continue making money. Typically innovation that ALSO lowers prices happens when the lower price point is going to "unlock" significantly larger consumer bases (and there are plenty of examples of it), but water cooling is a TINY niche market even among enthusiasts that are themselves a tiny niche market. So innovation (superior product for less) doesn't apply, because there would be no pressure or motivation for the companies to lower prices.

Well this got longer than I intended so I guess I'll stop there, but hopefully you get the idea...
post #378 of 380
I know with a lot of fittings that they must be a fit for the tubing hence EK must be with exactly 10/12 on the translation in inches 9.75 will make the internal diameter sit loose in the fitting cup and the outer diameter being 13 mm not 12mm difficult to work with and it certainly won't work with the press fittings as it will not manage its way correctly through the seal.

It might work for a while but the risk to the seals failing is greatly increased, I use EK tubing and fittings exclusively and it works a treat
post #379 of 380
I have a combination of EK and Bitspower fittings using Bitspower 16mm tubing. My system has been running for over a year and I've never had any leak issues. I've done a couple water changes with zero issues. Using distilled water only. My temps are cool and my system is what's stated in my signature. If you take the time and do it right you shouldn't have any issues. I have 4 EK-XE Rads and 3 Aquacomputer D5 pumps. My pumps are set to 65% power and my flow rate averages 3.8 LPM.



Youtube link
https://youtu.be/hG_t3UFBwoc
Edited by jsutter71 - 8/30/17 at 7:52pm
post #380 of 380
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aithos View Post

I've been going back and forth on doing a water loop for my last several builds but have never pulled the trigger because I wasn't sure it was worth the time and hassle. Now that I'm getting ready to do another build I'm having the same debate (again) and I think the look/durability of hard line may have tipped the scale. I came upon this thread because I was looking for some info on the differences between acrylic and PETG and I have to say: some of the nonsense in this thread (and elsewhere) is pretty appalling. I don't have a horse in the race (so to speak) so I thought I'd post some of my thoughts on the subject:

1) People need to understand that there is a LOT of bad information floating around the internet and you need to fact check before you post. I've seen a number of "tutorials" on how to bend acrylic that are flat out telling people to do things that will compromise the strength/integrity of the material. For example, I've seen a bunch of people saying to "quench" the tube after bending it... which is a TERRIBLE idea. Bending acrylic isn't like forging a sword, and most materials when taken from hot to cold to rapidly will be weakened tremendously if they don't flat out break. In other words: there are a lot of people out there who don't know what they are doing, and the fact is that acrylic is only prone to cracking or shattering if you've done a poor job of heating/bending it. It isn't brittle or weak at all, so it's pretty safe to assume that people who have had problems like that are almost entirely from user error and not some characteristic of the material.

2) If you're going to claim a position of "expertise" as a way to validate your argument (such as being an Engineer) then not only does your information have to be correct, but also relevant. I saw someone post a few pages back about how PETG actually has the higher melting point and they went on and on... but the entire argument is baseless. Why? Because it doesn't matter at what temperature the materials melt, it only matters at what temperature they deform. It is a fact that PETG deforms (and thus bends) at significantly lower temperatures, which means that in the event of a major failure where the system continues running (and heating up) the PETG tubing will deform in situations where acrylic won't. Even if PETG does have a higher melting point it's meaningless because at those temperatures the machine is toast regardless of which material you've chosen. Context is a thing, even if he/she was technically correct it wasn't relevant and only serves to confuse people by muddying the discussion.

3) People need to stop bringing up the "hammer" test and tensile strength and all the other things that either: a) don't apply or b) they don't understand. I'm not sure if the video I saw was the same video people were referring to, but the one I came across was so flawed (and biased) that I was literally laughing at how absurd it was. First of all, the method of heating was inconsistent. He had no way of controlling the rotation or distance the materials were heated at and didn't have any clear indicator of when the tubes were properly heated. Second, he waited pretty varied amounts of time between when he bent the tubes and when he "quenched" them. Third, he quenched them. Which aside from having a negative effect in general, has a differing impact on either material (IE: it doesn't affect each equally) and regardless of any other factors invalidates any "conclusions". Fourth, in the other tests (snapping/hammering) the force being applied was neither measured or consistent. It was pretty obvious even to a casual observer that he was skewing his tests in order to achieve his desired conclusion. Finally... none of it matters, because no one hammers their system and most people don't even touch, let alone move their towers, and if you do then perhaps you should take measures to make sure you protect the system and NOT DROP IT.

4) Everything has pros/cons, and neither material is the IDEAL solution for everyone. It depends on what YOU value most. For someone who doesn't mind the time/cost of learning to bend acrylic properly then I'd say it's clearly the better material, but that isn't saying it's better for everyone, just in that situation. For someone who doesn't want to spend a lot of time/money learning (and re-doing) bends to get them perfect, then PETG is going to be much simpler/easier and is clearly going to be the better material. It all comes down to each individual making their own choice.

5) You need to understand the motivation behind how/why companies would choose to release a "new" product that competes with their OWN products in the same category. It would need to either a) be a vastly superior and thus more expensive product, or b) be a cheaper/easier to manufacture product that will cost less or provide some other benefit to the company. If PETG was the superior material (in general) then I can assure you it wouldn't be less expensive. Period. Not even if it was vastly cheaper to manufacture, if it was better it would cost more than acrylic unless the market was dying and lowering costs was the only way to continue making money. Typically innovation that ALSO lowers prices happens when the lower price point is going to "unlock" significantly larger consumer bases (and there are plenty of examples of it), but water cooling is a TINY niche market even among enthusiasts that are themselves a tiny niche market. So innovation (superior product for less) doesn't apply, because there would be no pressure or motivation for the companies to lower prices.

Well this got longer than I intended so I guess I'll stop there, but hopefully you get the idea...

Although this was somewhat painful to read, its dead spot on!
 
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